Author Topic: And we have closure on THAT topic...  (Read 8808 times)

Offline opgelost

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Re: And we have closure on THAT topic...
« Reply #30 on: May 05, 2010, 01:56:14 PM »
I know there is a light and dark/ good vs evil theme that has been around since Locke showed the colored stones to Walt. Is MiB pure evil? Probably. Is Jacob Pure good? Defiantly not! You can't have pure evil with out pure good, and Jacob is was not pure good

I'm with you and I go further, I think Jacob is pure evil. And I like your picture of Jack smashing the lighthousemirrors.
I have discussions about MIB being the good one for months now and I don't believe that Damon and Carlton will give away that easily who the bad one is two weeks before the end of the show.

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: And we have closure on THAT topic...
« Reply #31 on: May 05, 2010, 02:00:44 PM »
See the problem with thinking they are misleading us is the context of the quote. They were asked why did they feel the need to commence with the deaths of so many characters in such a sudden way. They responded that it was to leave no doubt or ambiguity. MiB is evil and needs to be stopped. They didn't do this with one of their typical veiled responses. A typical response would have been closer to, "Well with all of our characters dying so quickly you'd probably assume whoever killed them was the overall antagonist of the show."

This was not a quote like that. It has to be really frustrating for them to hear all their fans holering for answers and then when TPTB finally give straight forward answers people are like.."Red Herring"

Offline zeekloveslost

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Re: And we have closure on THAT topic...
« Reply #32 on: May 05, 2010, 02:14:06 PM »
Some people value evidence over dogma. What the writers have said can be considered dogma. As as we have seen with their comments on time travel - they proved themselves wrong.  We base our judgement on MIB on the actions we see taking place.

I love the discussions here, but again, I_Am_Jacob, specifically, please dispense with the direct name-calling. You can also make your point and move on instead of repeating the same idea to the same person over and over. We get it.

Offline CaseyMac

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Re: And we have closure on THAT topic...
« Reply #33 on: May 05, 2010, 02:14:31 PM »
My 2 cents...I don't think this episode proved much more than when Smokey did his temple rampage, or attempted Desmond assasination. If someone still thought he could be the "good guy" after those occasions, then this episode would not change that theory. In fact, there is nothing in the original timeline that Smokey can do to change that theory considering that even if he makes the whole universe cease to exist...which is mass genocide, he still wouldn't be evil.

Offline lostfan777

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Re: And we have closure on THAT topic...
« Reply #34 on: May 05, 2010, 02:39:30 PM »
Don't worry no offence taken from that comment. I do recall from season 1 or 2 that the writers/producers said no to time travel or alternate universes, look where that has led us. So excuse me if I don't drink the kool-aid just yet, I want to make sure it's not tainted first.

My whole argument has been more about is Jacob evil more then it has been is MiB good. I admit my last post was worded poorly. Sure MiB killed people and is portrayed as the antagonist in the series, but if it was not for Jacob and his bet hundreds if not thousands of people he brought to the island would have led full and meaningful lives. Was smokey to blame for killing them all? I don't know, but what I do know is he would not have had the chance if Jacob let the ships sail on by. It's like bringing a bunch of children to a known pedophiles house. He may do all the evil things, but you are a sick bastard for given him the opportunity in the first place. I know there is a light and dark/ good vs evil theme that has been around since Locke showed the colored stones to Walt. Is MiB pure evil? Probably. Is Jacob Pure good? Defiantly not! You can't have pure evil with out pure good, and Jacob is was not pure good
Here's the thing. I think the Sideflashes are a "Thanks for Playing Our Little Game" present from Jacob. I think that all those thousands of people who he brought to the island eventually go on to live those lives they would have lead without the island. I think that is what we are going to see in our resolution here too. Once all is said and done with the island a person's consciousness SKEWS (Doc Brown underlining) into the Sideflash universe and they live happily ever after there. IF they can accept it. If not, then they end up in the Santa Rosa until they can accept it.

I for one am hoping this is how the ending of Lost goes.
I can totally get on board with this. I never liked the idea of the sideverse being the result of an MIB "win" but I DO like it being the result of a Jacob "win".

Yes, thank you, IAJ!  This makes perfect sense to me and I can now renew my faith in Jacob!

Offline DizzyIzzy

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Re: And we have closure on THAT topic...
« Reply #35 on: May 05, 2010, 03:06:19 PM »
black/white bad/evil MIB/Jacob...............all boils down to that I guess. Sad thing is I really don't care about the answers anymore. Geesh, Sun and Jin child is parentless, great end to that part of the story. Don't care to watch each character die. Rather grim and boring. And this story has been told over and over... No one ever wins it.

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: And we have closure on THAT topic...
« Reply #36 on: May 05, 2010, 03:16:53 PM »
Some people value evidence over dogma. What the writers have said can be considered dogma. As as we have seen with their comments on time travel - they proved themselves wrong.  We base our judgement on MIB on the actions we see taking place.

I love the discussions here, but again, I_Am_Jacob, specifically, please dispense with the direct name-calling. You can also make your point and move on instead of repeating the same idea to the same person over and over. We get it.

Who did I call a name there? I apologized For the earlier post where I tagged my responses to individuals. I was more trying to explain what points I was addressing. Again I am sorry if I offend you, but I don't remember ever calling YOU out specifically at all. See I don't mind repeating myself over and over the same way certain other people don't mind sharing their looney ideas over and over.

As for your "Evidence" comment. What evidence could you possibly have that MiB is good. Please share that with me as I am at a loss. How could you POSSIBLY think that MiB has anything but the worst in mind given the evidence we have. You can try basing it on something he has said, which would be considered more lies than anything else. Or you could try basing it on the evidence we have seen which would be the countless innocent deaths. Also to those who think Jacob is evil for bringing people to the island "against their will", which they fully excercise freely getting on the plane, and then leaving them to die. How does it seem most of those people end up dying on the island. I'd say your friendly neighborhood black smoke has a higher body count than pretty much the entire field of other causes.

Again, sorry Zeek for going after your ideas specifically, but I couldn't help it.

Offline BobBX542

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Re: And we have closure on THAT topic...
« Reply #37 on: May 05, 2010, 03:26:20 PM »
...This is not an M. Night movie...

You can tell LOST isn't an M. Night shamalangadingdong movie, because people like it.

ANYWAY...I like the idea about the off island time being a gift or reward from Jacob. It does sort of go against my thought of the cantidate that takes his place has to sacrifice the "perfect life" in order to save the island and the world, but it works.

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: And we have closure on THAT topic...
« Reply #38 on: May 05, 2010, 03:28:28 PM »
...This is not an M. Night movie...

You can tell LOST isn't an M. Night shamalangadingdong movie, because people like it.

ANYWAY...I like the idea about the off island time being a gift or reward from Jacob. It does sort of go against my thought of the cantidate that takes his place has to sacrifice the "perfect life" in order to save the island and the world, but it works.

Yeah I was VERY on board with that theory for a while, but it still may be the case for the person who eventually does take Jacob's place. Like the SideLinetm course corrects and Jack dies in a tragic accident there.

Offline BobBX542

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Re: And we have closure on THAT topic...
« Reply #39 on: May 05, 2010, 03:35:42 PM »
...This is not an M. Night movie...

You can tell LOST isn't an M. Night shamalangadingdong movie, because people like it.

ANYWAY...I like the idea about the off island time being a gift or reward from Jacob. It does sort of go against my thought of the cantidate that takes his place has to sacrifice the "perfect life" in order to save the island and the world, but it works.

Yeah I was VERY on board with that theory for a while, but it still may be the case for the person who eventually does take Jacob's place. Like the SideLinetm course corrects and Jack dies in a tragic accident there.

I see what you're saying, but in my thoughts the two time lines don't affect each other in that way.

Offline WhatThe

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Re: And we have closure on THAT topic...
« Reply #40 on: May 05, 2010, 03:46:15 PM »
MiB is definitely the ultimate evil. No way anyone could intelligently argue otherwise.

Jacob is not the ultimate good, though, I think. I think he is/was "just a man" who at some point in the distant past became a protector of the island much like whoever (Jack?) is going to be next. It's a chain of "protectors", each one chosen from a list of candidates that the current protector subtly "brings" to the island. MiB, however, has been there forever, seeing one protector after another come and go, each one keeping him "corked in". 700 years from now Jack will still look exactly like he does now, and will have a list of candidates himself that fate brings to the island. And MiB will be like Plankton from Spongebob Squarepants, always trying to come up with a new evil plan to steal the Krabby Patty secret recipe--I mean, to leave the island.

Offline Writers_Strike

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Re: And we have closure on THAT topic...
« Reply #41 on: May 05, 2010, 03:48:18 PM »
If memory serves me correctly there were 48 survivors in the front and 22 tailies and a pilot. That's 71 if you don't count Aaron out of 324 passangers and crew. That's an 79% mortality rate of just bringing them to the island. Smokey had nothing to do with their deaths. Yemi's drug plane killed everyone on impact, Blackrock killed a bunch. It seems that being brought to the island is dangerous. Unless you are a canidate to begin with, your chance of surviving the trip is pretty low.

I_Am_Jacob I am not following your "against their will" comment. I read it as you are saying that they got on the plane using free will, it's not Jacobs fault he let them die. I don't think people got on the plane knowing it would be intentionally brought down by a creepy blonde guy who lives in a foot.

Offline WhatThe

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Re: And we have closure on THAT topic...
« Reply #42 on: May 05, 2010, 03:55:59 PM »
If memory serves me correctly there were 48 survivors in the front and 22 tailies and a pilot. That's 71 if you don't count Aaron out of 324 passangers and crew. That's an 79% mortality rate of just bringing them to the island. Smokey had nothing to do with their deaths. Yemi's drug plane killed everyone on impact, Blackrock killed a bunch. It seems that being brought to the island is dangerous. Unless you are a canidate to begin with, your chance of surviving the trip is pretty low.
Jacob didn't make the plane crash, though. Desmond did. Jacob may have known ahead of time that the plane would crash, but the accident was due to the free will used by everyone involved, including Desmond's decision to leave the hatch at the most inappropriate time lol.


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I_Am_Jacob I am not following your "against their will" comment. I read it as you are saying that they got on the plane using free will, it's not Jacobs fault he let them die. I don't think people got on the plane knowing it would be intentionally brought down by a creepy blonde guy who lives in a foot.
Again, Jacob didn't "intentionally bring down" the plane. Nobody did. It was the result of a bunch of individual choices made by individual people, none of which knew (or cared) what the consequences of those actions might be.

Jacob understands the incredible importance free will plays in all of this, in finding the next island protector, in people's individual paths of redemption...all of it.

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: And we have closure on THAT topic...
« Reply #43 on: May 05, 2010, 03:56:21 PM »
MiB is definitely the ultimate evil. No way anyone could intelligently argue otherwise.

Jacob is not the ultimate good, though, I think. I think he is/was "just a man" who at some point in the distant past became a protector of the island much like whoever (Jack?) is going to be next. It's a chain of "protectors", each one chosen from a list of candidates that the current protector subtly "brings" to the island. MiB, however, has been there forever, seeing one protector after another come and go, each one keeping him "corked in". 700 years from now Jack will still look exactly like he does now, and will have a list of candidates himself that fate brings to the island. And MiB will be like Plankton from Spongebob Squarepants, always trying to come up with a new evil plan to steal the Krabby Patty secret recipe--I mean, to leave the island.

Yeah I think we may find out that Whoever was the original MiB may have been taken over by the same smokey force that inhabits Locke now. Thats a nice theory. It may not turn out to be that MiB (Titus Wellever) is evil, but the Black Smoke that took him over certainly is. Our story for next week may go something like: MiB and Jacob grow up and do the normal Human things to do. They arrive to the island by accident just like everyone else. Over the course of their time there, hardship befalls them. Jacob sees the island as a place he is supposed to be, and his brother or whatever (Titus Wellever) thinks they should leave. something tragic happens and MiB dies. Smoke Monster takes up his body and uses it to do his evil. Thus giving us the image of MiB as we know it today. This may lead to a story of MiB trying to decieve Jacob for the longest time too. MiB keeps telling Jacob, "I just want to go home Jacob" because that may be what Titus Wellever used to tell Jacob before he was consumed by smoke. Thoughts?

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: And we have closure on THAT topic...
« Reply #44 on: May 05, 2010, 03:57:38 PM »
If memory serves me correctly there were 48 survivors in the front and 22 tailies and a pilot. That's 71 if you don't count Aaron out of 324 passangers and crew. That's an 79% mortality rate of just bringing them to the island. Smokey had nothing to do with their deaths. Yemi's drug plane killed everyone on impact, Blackrock killed a bunch. It seems that being brought to the island is dangerous. Unless you are a canidate to begin with, your chance of surviving the trip is pretty low.
Jacob didn't make the plane crash, though. Desmond did. Jacob may have known ahead of time that the plane would crash, but the accident was due to the free will used by everyone involved, including Desmond's decision to leave the hatch at the most inappropriate time lol.


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I_Am_Jacob I am not following your "against their will" comment. I read it as you are saying that they got on the plane using free will, it's not Jacobs fault he let them die. I don't think people got on the plane knowing it would be intentionally brought down by a creepy blonde guy who lives in a foot.
Again, Jacob didn't "intentionally bring down" the plane. Nobody did. It was the result of a bunch of individual choices made by individual people, none of which knew (or cared) what the consequences of those actions might be.

Jacob understands the incredible importance free will plays in all of this, in finding the next island protector, in people's individual paths of redemption...all of it.

::Watching intently as WhatThe lays it out, then responds in a Jay voice after Silent Bob has spoken angrily to Banky Edwards:: Yeah.