Author Topic: Who is the Last Recruit?  (Read 8290 times)

Offline KoKoNut

  • DHARMA Scientist
  • ******
  • Posts: 7886
    • View Profile
Re: Who is the Last Recruit?
« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2010, 01:41:20 PM »
I have been saying it for weeks that MiB is not such a bad guy. Jacob comes across as evil to me, he brings people to the island against their will killing many in the process to try and win a bet against MiB. MiB has been against bringing people to the island since pre-Black Rock. He doesn't want to play Jacob's silly game. If MiB turns out to really be "All things Evil" then Jacob will end up being "All things A** Hole"

I love that I'm not the only one saying this stuff.  I don't feel so alone and outnumbered anymore!

They will end up being both one and the same just have been separated for awhile once merged by probablt Desmond paradise restored to the island

That's what I was predicting too GJ!  It's like their souls were split and now need to conform into a whole again. Yeah, that's a waaayyyy out there sort of theory, but I'm likin' it.  ;D

Offline BobBX542

  • DHARMA Work Man (or Woman)
  • *****
  • Posts: 4070
    • View Profile
Re: Who is the Last Recruit?
« Reply #31 on: April 21, 2010, 02:46:15 PM »
I think it refers to Jack being recruited by MIB in the respect that Jack is physically with him, but not mentally. I'm sure that with the way Jack has changed, he will see Locke doing something he doesn't agree with, and just not do it.

I'm watching the episode again right now, and not to toot my own horn here, but I think I'm right. When Jack and Sawyer are talking on the boat, Jack says that it doesn't feel right leaving the island, and if Locke wants to leave the island, then maybe he's afraid of what happens if they stay. So Jack is clearly not planning on leaving the island, and he needs to be close to Locke to know exactly what's going on.

Offline jkbeaulieu

  • Background Extra
  • *
  • Posts: 71
    • View Profile
Re: Who is the Last Recruit?
« Reply #32 on: April 21, 2010, 03:28:25 PM »
My only problem with the "Neither Flocke nor Jacob is truly good and neither is total evil" theory goes back to season one with Locke and Walt playing backgammon.  Locke explains (and I am paraphrasing) "Two sides, one white, one black"   This is an age old symbolic reference to good vs. evil, darkness vs. light, truth vs. lie.  I think in that moment, the writers were laying the foundation for where we are today.  There is conflict between good and evil.  If their point now is there is no black or white but only various shades of gray, then I feel cheated.  Then we only have a spineless, mushy, gutless look at the world where people refuse to believe in good or evil.  I am much more willing to enjoy the idea, whether it is truly Jacob or Locke, that one is good and one is evil.  We seem to see that Jacob is causing as much pain as Flocke so he must be evil.  But sometimes whether it being winning WWII or leading a SWAT team into conflict, there is pain, loss, bloodshed for a higher good.  When you sign up for service, you do not always know everything you are getting yourself into.  Even a marriage can be this way.  But you continue to choose the good, even when it seems you do not really have a choice.  So Jacob has called the candidates, they still have free will to choose.  So Locke is recruiting, seems Sawyer, Hurley, Jack, and even Clare and Sayid still have free will.  I do not have the answer but to say there is no good/evil in this story would seem to say none of this matters.  None of their choices matter, no sacrifice matters, no life or death matters.  That would be the hardest thing for me to swallow as this show comes to a close.

Offline jkbeaulieu

  • Background Extra
  • *
  • Posts: 71
    • View Profile
Re: Who is the Last Recruit?
« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2010, 03:30:19 PM »
Also, let's not forget Jack's tattoo - "He is among them but he is not one of them" or something to that effect.  Perhaps a foreshadowing of where Jack is now?

Offline I_Am_Jacob

  • In the Loop
  • ****
  • Posts: 1141
    • View Profile
Re: Who is the Last Recruit?
« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2010, 01:33:13 PM »
Yeah I like the thoughts on the Good v. Evil there. I think it is going to be more interpretive. Who do you VIEW as evil. As we all know some people think Jacob is evil for bringing people to the island without their consent and whatnot.

Offline Abaddons Key

  • Onlooker
  • *
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
Re: Who is the Last Recruit?
« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2010, 03:15:24 PM »
With all due respect Jack is the last recruit for MIB.  Ilana said MIB was recruiting pretty much start of this season.  Sawyer was one of his recruits.

With respect to characters mythology we got a big answer MIB was using Christians body he admited to that and Claire also admited it.
That was something we have been debating for 6 years ::) ;D

So you just take him at his word?  If this guy was standing in front of you and you had full knowledge of what he is would you believe a single word he said?  I think we are being led astray just as much as the characters.  I know the pacing seems kind of slow in ramping up to the end but a lot can happen in the next 5 hours.

Offline Madam P

  • In the Loop
  • ****
  • Posts: 1353
    • View Profile
Re: Who is the Last Recruit?
« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2010, 05:45:22 PM »
I have been saying it for weeks that MiB is not such a bad guy. Jacob comes across as evil to me, he brings people to the island against their will killing many in the process to try and win a bet against MiB. MiB has been against bringing people to the island since pre-Black Rock. He doesn't want to play Jacob's silly game. If MiB turns out to really be "All things Evil" then Jacob will end up being "All things A** Hole"

I love that I'm not the only one saying this stuff.  I don't feel so alone and outnumbered anymore!


Don't forget about me, guys -- I was on this bandwagon, too!   :)   (Actually, though, after this last episode I was almost telling myself "I dunno, he's looking kinda evil, now, for some reason.)  Fickle, fickle, fickle...

Offline MachThree

  • Survivor
  • ***
  • Posts: 510
    • View Profile
Re: Who is the Last Recruit?
« Reply #37 on: April 23, 2010, 05:54:49 PM »
My only problem with the "Neither Flocke nor Jacob is truly good and neither is total evil" theory goes back to season one with Locke and Walt playing backgammon.  Locke explains (and I am paraphrasing) "Two sides, one white, one black"   This is an age old symbolic reference to good vs. evil, darkness vs. light, truth vs. lie.  I think in that moment, the writers were laying the foundation for where we are today.  There is conflict between good and evil.  If their point now is there is no black or white but only various shades of gray, then I feel cheated.  Then we only have a spineless, mushy, gutless look at the world where people refuse to believe in good or evil.  I am much more willing to enjoy the idea, whether it is truly Jacob or Locke, that one is good and one is evil.  We seem to see that Jacob is causing as much pain as Flocke so he must be evil.  But sometimes whether it being winning WWII or leading a SWAT team into conflict, there is pain, loss, bloodshed for a higher good.  When you sign up for service, you do not always know everything you are getting yourself into.  Even a marriage can be this way.  But you continue to choose the good, even when it seems you do not really have a choice.  So Jacob has called the candidates, they still have free will to choose.  So Locke is recruiting, seems Sawyer, Hurley, Jack, and even Clare and Sayid still have free will.  I do not have the answer but to say there is no good/evil in this story would seem to say none of this matters.  None of their choices matter, no sacrifice matters, no life or death matters.  That would be the hardest thing for me to swallow as this show comes to a close.

I'd say two possibilities:

a) black and white, two diametrically opposing sides was misdirection from the writers to begin with, and the lesson / moral of the Lost story will be that there is no black and white, only shades of gray.  I like quoting my favorite show (before Lost), Babylon 5 - in that show the Vorlons (an ancient and powerful race, I'd probably compare them to Jacob) often repeated a saying: "Understanding is a three edged sword".  Eventually this was explained to mean "Your side, their side .... and the truth." 

b) things are really black and white, no shades of grey, but the battle is not between good and evil, its between two points of view that are opposite to one-another but neither is necessarily good nor evil - for instance, free-will vs. destiny, or faith vs. science.   I don't think any of those would count as pure good or pure evil.   

Offline opgelost

  • In the Loop
  • ****
  • Posts: 1826
    • View Profile
Re: Who is the Last Recruit?
« Reply #38 on: April 23, 2010, 07:01:14 PM »
I have been saying it for weeks that MiB is not such a bad guy. Jacob comes across as evil to me, he brings people to the island against their will killing many in the process to try and win a bet against MiB. MiB has been against bringing people to the island since pre-Black Rock. He doesn't want to play Jacob's silly game. If MiB turns out to really be "All things Evil" then Jacob will end up being "All things A** Hole"

I love that I'm not the only one saying this stuff.  I don't feel so alone and outnumbered anymore!


Don't forget about me, guys -- I was on this bandwagon, too!   :)   (Actually, though, after this last episode I was almost telling myself "I dunno, he's looking kinda evil, now, for some reason.)  Fickle, fickle, fickle...

And me, I think Jacob is the devil and MIB is the good one.

Offline lostfan777

  • In the Loop
  • ****
  • Posts: 1477
    • View Profile
Re: Who is the Last Recruit?
« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2010, 10:08:15 AM »
And me, I think Jacob is the devil and MIB is the good one.

And if you were there in the Garden of Eden, you would have said (in between bites of apple), "What a nice serpent!"   :D

Offline I_Am_Jacob

  • In the Loop
  • ****
  • Posts: 1141
    • View Profile
Re: Who is the Last Recruit?
« Reply #40 on: April 26, 2010, 12:19:55 PM »
I have been saying it for weeks that MiB is not such a bad guy. Jacob comes across as evil to me, he brings people to the island against their will killing many in the process to try and win a bet against MiB. MiB has been against bringing people to the island since pre-Black Rock. He doesn't want to play Jacob's silly game. If MiB turns out to really be "All things Evil" then Jacob will end up being "All things A** Hole"

I love that I'm not the only one saying this stuff.  I don't feel so alone and outnumbered anymore!


Don't forget about me, guys -- I was on this bandwagon, too!   :)   (Actually, though, after this last episode I was almost telling myself "I dunno, he's looking kinda evil, now, for some reason.)  Fickle, fickle, fickle...

Yeah MiB is losing alot of his ambiguity in these last few episodes. Shoving Des down a well. Then just to hammer the point home in case there was any wonder to his intention, he tells Sayid to go kill him. Then to further hammer the nail in he follows up with Sayid and asks if Desmond has been eliminated. Telling us three times that he wanted one of our more beloved characters dead is one sure fire way of getting our attentiona and letting us know he is the evil one.

Offline opgelost

  • In the Loop
  • ****
  • Posts: 1826
    • View Profile
Re: Who is the Last Recruit?
« Reply #41 on: April 28, 2010, 02:01:11 PM »
And me, I think Jacob is the devil and MIB is the good one.

And if you were there in the Garden of Eden, you would have said (in between bites of apple), "What a nice serpent!"   :D

Absolutely.
The garden of Eden is the place were Adam and Eve were expelled from right? It was the place where they wanted to be and
as a punishment couldn't go anymore.
What is the name of the place where people are brought to against their will and where they are not allowed to leave, but have to suffer and stay? Where they can't move on, but have to suffer for eternity?

Offline Holland34

  • In the Loop
  • ****
  • Posts: 1406
    • View Profile
Re: Who is the Last Recruit?
« Reply #42 on: April 28, 2010, 02:44:29 PM »
And me, I think Jacob is the devil and MIB is the good one.

And if you were there in the Garden of Eden, you would have said (in between bites of apple), "What a nice serpent!"   :D

Absolutely.
The garden of Eden is the place were Adam and Eve were expelled from right? It was the place where they wanted to be and
as a punishment couldn't go anymore.
What is the name of the place where people are brought to against their will and where they are not allowed to leave, but have to suffer and stay? Where they can't move on, but have to suffer for eternity?
Purgatory?  Hell?  McDonalds?

Offline opgelost

  • In the Loop
  • ****
  • Posts: 1826
    • View Profile
Re: Who is the Last Recruit?
« Reply #43 on: April 28, 2010, 02:51:28 PM »
Mc Donalds was the right answer. Much more poisson in that food than in the apple.
Congratulations.  :D

Offline lostfan777

  • In the Loop
  • ****
  • Posts: 1477
    • View Profile
Re: Who is the Last Recruit?
« Reply #44 on: April 28, 2010, 02:58:47 PM »
And me, I think Jacob is the devil and MIB is the good one.

And if you were there in the Garden of Eden, you would have said (in between bites of apple), "What a nice serpent!"   :D

Absolutely.
The garden of Eden is the place were Adam and Eve were expelled from right? It was the place where they wanted to be and
as a punishment couldn't go anymore.
What is the name of the place where people are brought to against their will and where they are not allowed to leave, but have to suffer and stay? Where they can't move on, but have to suffer for eternity?

I think, once again, you have missed my point.  The 'serpent' in the Garden wasn't being a nice guy by offering Adam and Eve a juicy apple and promising that they could have anything they wanted (the power of God) if they just chose to exercise their free will.  He was, instead, tempting them into eternal damnation.  Hence, my comparison between your MIB and the serpent.

Also, you're comparing Jacob's bringing everyone to the island against their will to people being condemned to Hell, right?  But people aren't condemned to Hell against their will, they excercise their free will while alive by choosing sin and therefore condemn themselves.

I'm not saying Jacob is God, but if there is to be a comparison made, Jacob asks for sacrifice in this life in return for blessings in the life that is to follow.  MIB asks them to act to save themselves, and in doing so, help him also.   But choosing to follow MIB will result in their eternal damnation.  I know, I know, you see it as the exact opposite....and you probably think snakes are cute and cuddly!  I hate to see this show end, but because of debates like ours, I can't wait for the next few weeks to pass so we can finally put this to rest!

I wish you luck.  May the best theorist win!   ;)