Author Topic: Widmore as warden  (Read 4574 times)

Offline Madam P

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Re: Widmore as warden
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2010, 06:41:04 PM »
Widmore and Eloise aged, they give us their birthdate, we saw them when they were young and older and old.
They were not there when the Black Rock came to the island.
In my opinion they are too much influenced by time to be a party. They are just pieces like all the others on the
wheel. Even if they know more in both timelines.
I think it is Jacob/MIB.

But you're not taking into account LostFan's initial premise, which was (I think) that maybe Charles Widmore is not his first/only persona, but maybe just his latest.  Locke aged, Locke had a birthdate, we've seen him at different ages -- but now Locke is MIB (apparently.)  So what's to say Widmore and/or Ellie aren't similar?  (At least, that's what I thought LF was saying...)

Offline LostinLock

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Re: Widmore as warden
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2010, 09:38:16 PM »
Ellie/Charles = Island  - dont' forget there is the island to deal with
MIB is the only one left and Jacob is dead  not coming back - perhaps in spirit but his job is done someone has to replace him
I am sure when we see Jacob it will be back filling to how this came about.

But Jacob's job is over he is dead and out of the picture

Offline lostfan777

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Re: Widmore as warden
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2010, 10:04:52 AM »
Widmore and Eloise aged, they give us their birthdate, we saw them when they were young and older and old.
They were not there when the Black Rock came to the island.
In my opinion they are too much influenced by time to be a party. They are just pieces like all the others on the
wheel. Even if they know more in both timelines.
I think it is Jacob/MIB.

But you're not taking into account LostFan's initial premise, which was (I think) that maybe Charles Widmore is not his first/only persona, but maybe just his latest.  Locke aged, Locke had a birthdate, we've seen him at different ages -- but now Locke is MIB (apparently.)  So what's to say Widmore and/or Ellie aren't similar?  (At least, that's what I thought LF was saying...)

Yeah, that was my initial thought, but I keep going around in circles.  Too many people here are making too many cases for too many possibilities and my head hurts!  The only story I've been able to stick with unchanged is my feeling that MIB is evil and if he escapes it will result in disaster for everyone.  I'll be in that camp until they spell it out for me that I'm wrong, but as for Widmore and Eloise I'm just taking guesses at this point.


Offline LostinLock

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Re: Widmore as warden
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2010, 09:20:50 AM »
lostfan777 keeping it simple is not easy

We keep lumping people as one.  I remember Mango thought Widmore and Penny were one.  I thought it was absurd and still do and he and I laugh at this.

But the reality is and will unfold that Ellie and Charles are two different people who are there for the island. I never heard them once mention Jacob and again Widmore's entire reaction to MIB was more of annoyance than anything.

Ellie tells Desmond the island is not finished with you, she moves Desmond on to his destiny to get to the island to save the world.  She knows that Daniel her son is going to die and she sacraficed him for the island. 
The island cloaks itself for sufficient enough reason and these two, Ellie and Charles know how to get around it.  So with much hope, on my end, the answers of Charles and Eloise (Ellie, Hawking, Dan's Mum) will be well explained and how they fit in the final puzzle.

Jacob and MIB are not one they are seperate entities and it was made clear.  Why would Jacob find candidates if he himself didnt' know what coming?  Even if it took his brother 3000 plus years to kill him he was going to do it. MIB/Locke was determined to do just that.  MIB is not nice I don't care what kind of glasses you put on, how you spin this, this character is not there for the greater good of mankind.  Jacob is dead so whatever he needed to do has been done, perhaps he will surface again, but something indicates that his visits to Hurley have ended.

I think we are due for back story on Jacob and MIB when they were younger.  I think that MIB is plagued with the ghosts of the past and that is being shown by the two young boys we see.  He is not happy to see either of them. 

My last point is to our viewing audience only Richard and Jacob appear not to have aged. MIB is not part of this mix cause we do not know when he was "transformed/became" smoke monster.  Frankly the other people in this tale are aging according to their life expectancy. 

In conclusion we forgot one thing Widmore was booted off that island and if you notice he is not on the main island but Hydra.  So can Charles ever step foot over there?  Which would not make him a candidate to be a "warden"

Offline Madam P

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Re: Widmore as warden
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2010, 06:03:52 PM »

Jacob and MIB are not one they are seperate entities and it was made clear. 

Well, a lot of people think of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost as three separate entities, and a lot of other people think of them as a trinity of three in one.  Not that I'm saying that Jacob/MIB are Father/Son/Holy Ghost or anything, but something along those lines is what I was thinking about.  Separate yet united.

Offline LostinLock

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Re: Widmore as warden
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2010, 01:24:27 PM »
I understood but I do not look at them in that manner.  The religious symbolism is apparent but for the past month or so I have been contemplating and discussing with a non Lost Fan about Existentialism.
Exitentialism......... deal with the conditions of existence of the individual person and their emotions, actions, responsibilities, and thoughts........maintained that the individual is solely responsible for giving their own life meaning and living that life passionately and sincerely.........in spite of many existential obstacles and distractions including despair, angst, absurdity, alienation, and boredom.

Subsequent existential philosophers retain the emphasis on the individual, but differ, in varying degrees, on how one achieves and what constitutes a fulfilling life, what obstacles must be overcome, and what external and internal factors are involved, including the potential consequences of the existence or non-existence of God.



and so this may not fit with the thread of what this thread topic, but  I think TPTB/Writers are providing conditions to which these folks respond and for some there is faith based in their life as with others there is no faith.   For example Jack and the original Locke. 

I could ramble on about all of this but as I have been just scratching the surface this is so close to the life circumstances of the characters, well.  I am hoping that in the end the religious symbolism was just that symbolic in story telling.  That MIB and Jacob are two ancient folks caught up in an existensial dialogue.  AND the Island is just there for added fun and needs to be protected from mankind.

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: Widmore as warden
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2010, 04:08:50 PM »
I like the existentialism inherent in the show too. This all is one of the reasons I think TPTB are going to leave MiB unnamed. This would provide everyone with a reference to Jacob and Esau, while not having it be a litteral retelling of it. They'll show us two boys and a story of betrayal. It may draw parrallels to it, but nothing more. That way they don't have to adhere directly to the story. If they name MiB and stray from the story, it would illicit a different dialog for the viewers.

Jacob and MiB are going to stay Jacob and MiB.