Author Topic: Widmore as warden  (Read 5286 times)

Offline lostfan777

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Widmore as warden
« on: April 09, 2010, 03:21:38 PM »
I've always been in the Jacob = good camp as long as we've been debating good vs. bad.  But, and I'm sorry I don't remember who first brought it up, someone mentioned the old computer game Myst.  I played it years ago and I don't remember it all, but basically, you puzzle your way through this mysterious island where you are given clues by these two brothers who are each trying to convince you to help them because they are the good guy and you should not listen to the other.  Long story short, at the end, if you choose to help either of them escape, you lose and end up trapped yourself because the real good guy that needs to be saved in the game is their father.

So, while I'll never buy that MIB is good unless they cram it down my throat on finale night, I will admit that I wouldn't feel comfortable with Jacob as my best friend either.  I'd settle for having Widmore come to the rescue and shut down the whole operation, trapping both MIB and whatever is left of Jacob.  I could buy that.  And maybe Widmore's ties to the island go back further than we have been shown. 

I always had a problem with his line, "The island is mine, Ben, always has been".  Could it be the young man we met in the 50's wasn't the first time Charles had been there?  Maybe 'Charles' is his latest persona and he was there to keep both MIB and Jacob in check.  Do we know if Jacob was able to leave the island before Ben took over?  Did Jacob influence Ben into power to get rid of Charles and gain his own freedom?  This would explain why Jacob and MIB both acted as though there was something to worry about when Jacob said "They're coming".  There's probably not enough time left to go this far into it, but I thought it was an interesting idea, though.

Offline lostfan777

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Re: Widmore as warden
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2010, 03:38:29 PM »
I'm re-reading this and it just makes me think that Widmore must be more than JUST a powerful man if he can challenge MIB.  Then that thought reminded me of Christian.  He has been a part of it from the beginning and yet we still don't even know where the hell he is!  Another important player that has yet to show his cards.

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: Widmore as warden
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2010, 04:23:57 PM »
Yeah I saw ties to Myst, and heard the original writer of the story got the idea from the game. Not saying that Widmore would be their litteral father, but perhaps he is there as sort of a third option that we don't quite recognize as distinct yet. For example, Widmore may have known what was up and was trying to get back so that he could prevent either one of the two "brothers" from winning. Jacob saying "They're coming" may not have been implying that the newcommers were on HIS side, but simply against MiB. Say it goes down that Jaccob needs Jack to CHOOSE to be the caretaker of the island and watch over MiB. MiB needs all the candidates killed  with Jacob dead in order to win. Widmore is trying to do something we have yet to see in order to preserve the status quo and go on with their lives.

Offline lostfan777

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Re: Widmore as warden
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2010, 04:35:06 PM »
Yeah I saw ties to Myst, and heard the original writer of the story got the idea from the game. Not saying that Widmore would be their litteral father, but perhaps he is there as sort of a third option that we don't quite recognize as distinct yet. For example, Widmore may have known what was up and was trying to get back so that he could prevent either one of the two "brothers" from winning. Jacob saying "They're coming" may not have been implying that the newcommers were on HIS side, but simply against MiB. Say it goes down that Jaccob needs Jack to CHOOSE to be the caretaker of the island and watch over MiB. MiB needs all the candidates killed  with Jacob dead in order to win. Widmore is trying to do something we have yet to see in order to preserve the status quo and go on with their lives.

Sounds good to me, because it didn't make sense to me that Jacob, in his dying breath would be warning MIB that someone is coming.  And it did sound like a warning to me.

Offline LostinLock

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Re: Widmore as warden
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2010, 09:37:27 PM »
Nice I like this and though I think Widmore is more the balast here to make things equal again.  But truthfully that sounds like a good game and one that would fit this more than the pseudo Christianity Chess Game we have.

Sorry every time I think of the Richard centric show I hear the following song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX0O_ojxwa4

And I so expect Locke to come out and sing this!!!!!!!  sorry for sticking my nose in this great conversation

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: Widmore as warden
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2010, 12:41:36 PM »
You can stick your nose into whatever conversation you like. You have a nice nose

Offline Maxor127

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Re: Widmore as warden
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2010, 01:02:28 PM »
If anyone is their "father," I highly doubt that it's Widmore.  They could very well tell the same story but use the "mother" instead.  Widmore was a punk in the 50s, so if I had to choose between the three, I'd choose MIB and Jacob over him.  He's always come off as a selfish prick and nothing has swayed my opinion this last episode.  If Widmore was so powerful, I don't think he would've easily been banished and usurped by Ben, and he wouldn't have been so influenced by "Jacob's will."

I think Widmore wants power.  MIB is just an obstacle in his way for control of the island, and he thinks science can defeat that obstacle.  I won't be surprised when his plan backfires and his face melts and explodes.

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: Widmore as warden
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2010, 01:05:48 PM »
Oh he is going to die. Of that I am almost certain. I think Jacob is the right choice, but would not be surprised if there was a third choice in this little game.

Offline lostfan777

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Re: Widmore as warden
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2010, 01:59:35 PM »
Oh he is going to die. Of that I am almost certain. I think Jacob is the right choice, but would not be surprised if there was a third choice in this little game.

I've always agreed that Jacob was the guy to stick with, but there are enough others out there that think he is either bad or that neither he nor MIB can be trusted, so I started to wonder if there was a third side to this coin.  No, Widmore isn't their 'father'. I just thought the 'Myst' comparison was interesting, that we have been given two choices all along and the right one is neither.  This would be more acceptable to me than having it turned on its head and end up with MIB as the hero and Jacob the villain.  And if so, the best third party right now, the one everyone is concerned about, is Widmore.  So, if he is so important, than who is he really?  I have to think he is more than just a rich man looking for even more power and money.  That's what led me to think of him as the 'warden' of the island, and maybe his purpose is to keep both MIB AND Jacob from interfering with the outside world.

Offline Shmokin17

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Re: Widmore as warden
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2010, 02:10:08 PM »
If I was Widmore it wouldn't be power i'd be wanting from the island cos he seems as though he has all the power in the world.

I would more likely seeking eternal life from the island?

On what I have seen so far, and i'm sorry if i have missed other things, eternal life and time travel are the greatest things this island can offer.

Oh and this is a wild stab in the dark, and respect to anyone that has suggested this already, but what if widmore is the blonde boy.

Anyone else think thats worth considering?

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: Widmore as warden
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2010, 02:12:03 PM »
Yeah I like that. I think I would be MUCH more apt to accept Widmore as the mystery third option then if they tried to serve me the MiB is GREAT platter.

Offline lostfan777

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Re: Widmore as warden
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2010, 02:25:01 PM »
If I was Widmore it wouldn't be power i'd be wanting from the island cos he seems as though he has all the power in the world.

I would more likely seeking eternal life from the island?

On what I have seen so far, and i'm sorry if i have missed other things, eternal life and time travel are the greatest things this island can offer.

Oh and this is a wild stab in the dark, and respect to anyone that has suggested this already, but what if widmore is the blonde boy.

Anyone else think thats worth considering?

If Widmore is indeed there for selfish reasons, then eternal life would be a huge incentive to be in control.  (I could buy that although I still think he will end up being there for unselfish reasons.)  But can the island give eternal life, or just Jacob?  He seemed to have the power to heal off the island also, as with Locke.  But maybe he himself got that power from the island.  Possible.

As for the young blond kid, I think it's a slim shot that it's Widmore.

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: Widmore as warden
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2010, 02:47:54 PM »
I think the little blonde kid is the young version of Jacob. Just me, but with how MiB reacted to it I think it is likely that it is a young Jacob. And NO I don't think Jacob is Aaron.

Offline Madam P

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Re: Widmore as warden
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2010, 03:59:51 PM »
Oh he is going to die. Of that I am almost certain. I think Jacob is the right choice, but would not be surprised if there was a third choice in this little game.

I've always agreed that Jacob was the guy to stick with, but there are enough others out there that think he is either bad or that neither he nor MIB can be trusted, so I started to wonder if there was a third side to this coin.  No, Widmore isn't their 'father'. I just thought the 'Myst' comparison was interesting, that we have been given two choices all along and the right one is neither.  This would be more acceptable to me than having it turned on its head and end up with MIB as the hero and Jacob the villain.  And if so, the best third party right now, the one everyone is concerned about, is Widmore.  So, if he is so important, than who is he really?  I have to think he is more than just a rich man looking for even more power and money.  That's what led me to think of him as the 'warden' of the island, and maybe his purpose is to keep both MIB AND Jacob from interfering with the outside world.

Why can't MIB and Jacob be the good guys, and Widmore and Eloise be the bad guys?  Since we're taking a third angle and all...  (I'm sorta thinking of Widmore/Eloise as one entity here, although they aren't really.  More likely MIB/Jacob are one entity, and Widmore and Eloise make the thirds.  I really don't think we should forget about Eloise...)  I really like your initial premise with the "Myst" tie-in, though, LostFan.  And no, I don't think the blond kid will be Widmore. 

Offline opgelost

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Re: Widmore as warden
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2010, 04:54:34 PM »
Widmore and Eloise aged, they give us their birthdate, we saw them when they were young and older and old.
They were not there when the Black Rock came to the island.
In my opinion they are too much influenced by time to be a party. They are just pieces like all the others on the
wheel. Even if they know more in both timelines.
I think it is Jacob/MIB.