Original vs Alt timeline - what will they choose?

[lostfan777]

Charly doesn't want the other timeline. He is dead there. He wants Claire.
Daniel doesn't want the other timeline. He is dead there and alife even worse. He wants Charlotte.

As others have also said, Charlie and Daniel are only aware that there is another life for them that includes a great love.  They don't know that they died in that other life.  In fact, Charlie seems to think the only way to be with his love is to die in this 'imaginary' timeline.  Side note:  They haven't said his vision was of Claire, could they be throwing us a curveball?

[lostfan777]

The thing I don't get is that its not consistent. 

I mean, some of them seem to have their greatest wish come true, at least partially, in the ALT:  Locke has Helen, Ben's Alex is alive, Jack starts to become the father his father never was to him, Sayid's Nadia is alive, Sun is with Jin instead of apart from him, Hurley really is lucky (hey, its always better to win the Lottery with numbers that aren't cursed!).  But Charlie is without Claire, Des is without Penny, Daniel is without Charlotte, Sawyer is without Kate/Juliette, Jack is presumably without Kate/Juliette but then David's mom is still TBD.... 

I never saw their ATL lives as good at all, more of just a frustrating existence.  Locke is still in his chair and feeling pathetic, Jack has a son but is separated from Juliet (oh, sorry, I mean David's TBD mother!), Kate hinted she may be innocent but then she is WRONGFULLY accused, Claire will keep Aaron but is scared and alone (except for her accused murderer friend), Sayid has to kill his screw-up brother's enemies and then watch him go to bed with Nadia, Ben is trapped in his mediocre existence, Sun is pregnant and not married to Jin and now has no money and a bullet in her belly!  Hurley is the only one who appears to be doing well, but wait, we have yet to see his whole story.  I'm guessing it won't be all Apollo bars and ranch dressing for him either!

Here's what I don't get:  Some of these characters seem to have gotten 'some' of what they hoped for (Nadia alive, Locke marrying Helen, Jack is a father, etc.), almost like a deal with the devil where they got conned in the end, but MOST of these people were never shown to have made a deal with MIB.  In fact, most of them either haven't gotten the 'genie in a bottle' speech from Flocke or refused his hand when it was offered and some even turned and ran from him.  Eloise comes right out and tells Desmond he has 'what he always wanted', her husband's approval (another deal with the devil double cross!) but when did Desmond agree to this deal?  Who/what is responsible for this fake life they are all leading?  I don't think it was the MIB's doing at all.  It may be that it is just their destiny if the island is destroyed/sunk and Jacob is not replaced.  Their lives may be about to go from bad to worse if MIB has succeeded in escaping the island.

[opgelost]

Charly doesn't want the other timeline. He is dead there. He wants Claire.
Daniel doesn't want the other timeline. He is dead there and alife even worse. He wants Charlotte.

As others have also said, Charlie and Daniel are only aware that there is another life for them that includes a great love.  They don't know that they died in that other life.  In fact, Charlie seems to think the only way to be with his love is to die in this 'imaginary' timeline.  Side note:  They haven't said his vision was of Claire, could they be throwing us a curveball?

I am going to say it.
Jacob please don't read if you don't want to get mad. I know you think I turn everything to make it fix my theory.

They showed us that Charlie and Desmond loved someone that they had never seen, but deep in their unconsciossness they knew that
they loved them. They felt it. That perfectly fits my theory that Jack in the end deeply inside will just know and feel that there is a
son (love) that he never saw, that in this life never existed and that he has to become aware of. And again I believe that Smoky's name is David Shepard.

I don't think Charly knows about the other timeline. Daniel has a big suspicion and Eloise just knows. But I don't think Charlie knows what he saw. He didn't understand why Desmond wanted to see his hands and didn't know Penny or Desmond. He would remember the man that saved his life a lot of times and than told him when he had to die.

[lostfan777]

Charly doesn't want the other timeline. He is dead there. He wants Claire.
Daniel doesn't want the other timeline. He is dead there and alife even worse. He wants Charlotte.

As others have also said, Charlie and Daniel are only aware that there is another life for them that includes a great love.  They don't know that they died in that other life.  In fact, Charlie seems to think the only way to be with his love is to die in this 'imaginary' timeline.  Side note:  They haven't said his vision was of Claire, could they be throwing us a curveball?

I am going to say it.
Jacob please don't read if you don't want to get mad. I know you think I turn everything to make it fix my theory.

They showed us that Charlie and Desmond loved someone that they had never seen, but deep in their unconsciossness they knew that
they loved them. They felt it. That perfectly fits my theory that Jack in the end deeply inside will just know and feel that there is a
son (love) that he never saw, that in this life never existed and that he has to become aware of. And again I believe that Smoky's name is David Shepard.
I don't think Charly knows about the other timeline. Daniel has a big suspicion and Eloise just knows. But I don't think Charlie knows what he saw. He didn't understand why Desmond wanted to see his hands and didn't know Penny or Desmond. He would remember the man that saved his life a lot of times and than told him when he had to die.

Actually, since David only appears in the ATL, if that is the 'fake' life, he isn't supposed to exist at all.  I'm now picturing Desmond trying to convince Jack that he needs to go baaaaack to a life where his son doesn't exist!  Good luck with that!  But just to start a completely new debate here, I doubt the David is the MIB, but what if he is really Jacob awaiting his chance to return to the island of the original timeline and defeat the MIB, pulling his own 'loophole'?  I doubt that will happen either, but it sounds just as plausible to me as MIB.

[CaseyMac]

Charly doesn't want the other timeline. He is dead there. He wants Claire.
Daniel doesn't want the other timeline. He is dead there and alife even worse. He wants Charlotte.

As others have also said, Charlie and Daniel are only aware that there is another life for them that includes a great love.  They don't know that they died in that other life.  In fact, Charlie seems to think the only way to be with his love is to die in this 'imaginary' timeline.  Side note:  They haven't said his vision was of Claire, could they be throwing us a curveball?

I am going to say it.
Jacob please don't read if you don't want to get mad. I know you think I turn everything to make it fix my theory.

They showed us that Charlie and Desmond loved someone that they had never seen, but deep in their unconsciossness they knew that
they loved them. They felt it. That perfectly fits my theory that Jack in the end deeply inside will just know and feel that there is a
son (love) that he never saw, that in this life never existed and that he has to become aware of. And again I believe that Smoky's name is David Shepard.

I don't think Charly knows about the other timeline. Daniel has a big suspicion and Eloise just knows. But I don't think Charlie knows what he saw. He didn't understand why Desmond wanted to see his hands and didn't know Penny or Desmond. He would remember the man that saved his life a lot of times and than told him when he had to die.

You could be right. I just have the same reservation that Lostfan does. I'm not sure the "this isn't right" feeling goes both ways. We've seen it from the alt timeline to the original timeline, but not from the original to the alt. After this episode, I have the feeling that they are going to "correct" the alternate timeline.

[opgelost]

You say it is a fake timeline, according to me the created timeline is the crastimeline. Not fake, but manipulated.
But both timelines exist and run at the same time and are affecting each other now.
I still hold to the non-crashtimeline being the original one and the crashtimeline the changed one.
What if... said by Daniel doesn't mean anything, it just means what if.

[opgelost]

You could be right. I just have the same reservation that Lostfan does. I'm not sure the "this isn't right" feeling goes both ways. We've seen it from the alt timeline to the original timeline, but not from the original to the alt. After this episode, I have the feeling that they are going to "correct" the alternate timeline.

We just name the timelines exactly opposite, where you say original timeline I call it changed, where you say alternate I call it original. 
 

[CaseyMac]

You could be right. I just have the same reservation that Lostfan does. I'm not sure the "this isn't right" feeling goes both ways. We've seen it from the alt timeline to the original timeline, but not from the original to the alt. After this episode, I have the feeling that they are going to "correct" the alternate timeline.

We just name the timelines exactly opposite, where you say original timeline I call it changed, where you say alternate I call it original. 
 

Interesting point. However it seems to contradict with what both Charlie and Daniel said this week. Essentially that in the alt timeline "none of this matters or is supposed to happen".

[I_Am_Jacob]

AAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!

I know you told me not to, but I read through it anyway. David Shepherd is David Shepherd is David Shepherd. That's it. MiB is MiB, and Jacob is Jacob. I'm sorry, but ever since the induction of time travel everyone started talking about who Person A may be, or Who that skeleton could be. We will be getting backstory on our mysterious characters here in several episodes, and it will all be explained then. Jacob is not going to turn out to be Aaron, and MiB is not going to turn out to be anyone other than MiB. Have you guys seen Role Models? If you have there is a scene where our "Wings" regular Martin Gary is telling a ghost story around a campfire that would be similar to an explanation of MiB is David Shepherd. Ah-hem (not verbatem but you'll get the picture)

Martin Gary: And as they turned around to the open door they saw the killer. With the moon as his back it was...
(children listen somewhat intent, somwhat disinterested)
Martin Gary (Cont.): PHILLIP!
(Blank Stares)
Martin Gary: The Pizza delivery guy for when they ordered pizza at the beginning of the story...(Sounds completely disappointed)

::Applause::

Thank you thank you. But in all seriousness I think that is the trouble I am having with the idea of having characters being given new identities in our final 6 episodes here. (FLocke is not a new identity, he is the old identity using a new body)There is still so much story to tell on both the Island and the LA X timeline that the end would feel SO rushed if it came down to that. If this was a plot they started to develop last season I would be a bit more apt to allow it consideration, but they have had too long to set up this ending for it to be that rushed. Again. Not trying to start a fight or anything, just expressing how I feel about it.

As for the statements from Dan and Carlie, I think the writers, if they looked in on these discussions, may be tempted to yell at us. I have a feeling that not EVERYTHING they say in these episodes has the intent to mislead. This is the season for answers, and we are getting them, bu tI think the audience is so used to them being misdirects that they don't know what to think when they are being told the truth.

[opgelost]

If they just would let Daniel say: "listen Desmond, this is the wrong life, we don't belong here." period.
But they don't do that they make him say "what if...".

And in the other timeline almost in every episode there was someone saying:
We are not supposed to be here. You are not supposed to do that. We are not supposed to go there.
You are not supposed to raise him. He is not supposed to turn the wheel. he is not supposed to fly that plane.
We were all supposed to die. You are not supposed to save him. walt appearing where he is not supposed to be.
Des and Penny not supposed to be together. the 6 are not supposed to leave the island.
They don't even say what if...

[CaseyMac]

Hey Jacob, say whispering eye

[I_Am_Jacob]

Hey Jacob, say whispering eye

_{whispering eye}

[CaseyMac]

And in the other timeline almost in every episode there was someone saying:
We are not supposed to be here. You are not supposed to do that. We are not supposed to go there.
You are not supposed to raise him. He is not supposed to turn the wheel. he is not supposed to fly that plane.
We were all supposed to die. You are not supposed to save him. walt appearing where he is not supposed to be.
Des and Penny not supposed to be together. the 6 are not supposed to leave the island.
They don't even say what if...

I think those are really in a different context, and context is really important. Take the "he is not supposed to fly that plane". First, they havn't shown it, but I don't think Frank was flying 815 in the sideflashes. Also perhaps it was Frank's destiny to miss that flight only to get to the Island ina different way in which he would survive. Before the pilot got smoked, he was pretty beat up from the crash.

Also, you can't ignore John Locke's quotes of, "this is our destiny" "we were meant to be on this island" etc.

Plus, the epsiode ended with Desmond wanting the flight manifest so he can show the rest of the 815's what he has been shown, and anybody that watches the show knows how important those final moments of the episodes always are.

[CaseyMac]

Hey Jacob, say whispering eye

_{whispering eye}

OMG, you said it!

[I_Am_Jacob]

And in the other timeline almost in every episode there was someone saying:
We are not supposed to be here. You are not supposed to do that. We are not supposed to go there.
You are not supposed to raise him. He is not supposed to turn the wheel. he is not supposed to fly that plane.
We were all supposed to die. You are not supposed to save him. walt appearing where he is not supposed to be.
Des and Penny not supposed to be together. the 6 are not supposed to leave the island.
They don't even say what if...

Also, you can't ignore John Locke's quotes of, "this is our destiny" "we were meant to be on this island" etc.

EXACTLY! That't the flaw in this system. If you are going to count all the "We're NOT supposed to's", you have to also take into consideration the "It's our destiny's" too. Now you could say that it is Locke's destiny to be on the island so MiB can free himself and corrupt the world, but he said those things when he was a man of Faith. Now it seems Jack is the man of destiny and he has taken up the "we are supposed to do this" torch. I think that has a HUGE connotation in this series.