Widmore is the good guy?

[BobBX542]

Widmore wanted Ben to kill Danielle, and when Ben returned with the baby, Widmore told him he should have left it to die if I remember correctly...which apparently I do not...


S05E12 Dead is Dead Transcript
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Dead_Is_Dead_transcript

WIDMORE: Well? Did you do it?

BEN: We had a...

BEN: ...complication.

BEN: I'm sorry.

WIDMORE: Is that a... baby? Your orders were to exterminate that woman.

BEN: Why? She's no threat to us. She's insane, Charles. Besides, you didn't tell me she had a child. What was it I was supposed to do?

CHARLES: Kill it.

BEN: It's not an "it". This is a child.

WIDMORE: You might find this difficult to understand, Benjamin... every decision I've made has been about protecting this Island.

BEN: Is killing this baby what Jacob wants?

BEN: Then here she is.

BEN: You do it.


But, as it is up there, when Ben presents Alex for Widmore to kill, he can't do it. So I don't think that makes him that evil, because if he really wanted to do it, then he would have.

[lostfan777]

Thank you for that, makes me feel a little better about siding with Widmore now.  And Ben.  And Jacob.

[thebeann]

Let us not forget that Ben also did many "bad" things that seemingly had no reason. Some of them may have been for the 'greater good' but seriously? All? Was he justified in killing all the Dharma's? Why would anyone be surprised at Widmore not batting an eye at killing a baby when he's leader of a team protecting the very integrity of the planet - maybe universe! Both Widmore and Ben have had to make many sacrifices for the 'greater good.' No doubt Widmore loves his daughter as Ben loved his. I think Widmore was caught in Ben's power trip, and maybe...just maybe...he knew Ben was lying about Jacob all along and that's why he wanted to get back to the island. Maybe he even knew that Ben would ultimately kill Jacob...hell, Eloise seems to know everything about every timeline, past, present, and future! Why not Charles?

I think not unlike Ben..Widmore will show that he is not an inherently evil person, but has had to make tough decisions for the greater good. And now...ironically...he will team up with his life-long nemesis Ben to ultimately defeat the MIB. TEAM LINUMORE!

[lostfan777]

LINUMORE doesn't work, try Winus.....

[thebeann]

Or Widmus. Winus is great...but I might think of Elmer Fudd everytime someone talks about Ben.

"I'm going to ewectwo-magneticwy kiww the waaaaabiiiit!"

[CaseyMac]

Or Widmus. Winus is great...but I might think of Elmer Fudd everytime someone talks about Ben.

"I'm going to ewectwo-magneticwy kiww the waaaaabiiiit!"

ROFLMAO!!! Oh if only the writers would have given us a character with a speech impediment. That would have been the...best...line...ever!

[CaseyMac]

Maybe I'm watching a different show, but Widmore still seems villainous to me. 

I had to laugh at this, because I've had a similar thought with people who think MIB is the good guy and not a villain, and here I am defending Widmore.

You make a really good point in that Widmore has been pretty villainous the whole show. The main thing that softened me up to him was he seemed to lay off Penny and Desmond once Des finally got off the Island, which made me think he was just trying to protect Penny from those years of not being with Des. I might just be overly sympathetic to the guy though.

[Gutterball94]

I want Widmore to be the good guy.

Just listen to that guy speak. He so well versed!!

Villains can't be that charmingly smooth. Or is that me falling for it just now??

[thebeann]

I want Widmore to be the good guy.

Just listen to that guy speak. He so well versed!!

Villains can't be that charmingly smooth. Or is that me falling for it just now??

Yes, the villains CAN be charmingly smooth...like MIB. He's evil, commits genocide in the form of bbq smoke, and will bring about the non-existence of the world if released....and yet, in his original form I would drop trou for him in a New York minute. Bad boys...go figure.

[PMMJ]

I'm amused that people are saying Widmore is evil because he's gotten people killed. How many people have died on the island because Jacob brought them there to prove a point to the Man in Black? Seriously, that's who you're defining as the good guy in that situation?

[CaseyMac]

I'm amused that people are saying Widmore is evil because he's gotten people killed. How many people have died on the island because Jacob brought them there to prove a point to the Man in Black? Seriously, that's who you're defining as the good guy in that situation?

Yeah, we've kicked that horse around a bit, but it's not quite dead yet. Basically, the rebuttal to that is, "How responsible is Jacob for those deaths?" i.e. Jacob didn't shoot down flight 815, Desmond really would be the one to point a finger at. Jacob seems to just put himself in the way of the choices people make. On the other hand, we've seen Smokey actually physically kill alot of people, and if Jacob is anti-Smokey, then he may not be pure good, but at least on the side of good. So maybe Jacob is more like the archangel Michael, than he is an "angel".

As for Widmore, he has done some pretty bad stuff, but the thing that kind of makes him most reviled by Lost fans seems to be his interference in the most popular love story in Lost...Desmond & Penny.

[Madam P]

Villains can't be that charmingly smooth. Or is that me falling for it just now??

That's the very thing that makes them villainous, usually.   

Did anybody besides me ever watch that show Reaper?  The guy who played the devil on that show was awesome!  Satan himself, and ever so charmingly smooth!  Was his name Ray Wise?  He'd have made a great Widmore.

The thing that gets me about Widmore (and this is totally stupid because it's just lighting probably) is that his eyes sometimes look completely black.  Almost like black marbles... like the eyes of the bad guy in that movie based on Stephen King's Storm of the Century.  Totally creepy eyes.  But then, other times, they look normal and blue. 

[Madam P]

LINUMORE doesn't work, try Winus.....

Winus won't work -- that was the acronym for the statistical data Chandler had to work with in the early episodes of Friends...

Charben sounds like toilet paper.  Maybe Benchar?

[lostfan777]

Villains can't be that charmingly smooth. Or is that me falling for it just now??

That's the very thing that makes them villainous, usually.   

Did anybody besides me ever watch that show Reaper?  The guy who played the devil on that show was awesome!  Satan himself, and ever so charmingly smooth!  Was his name Ray Wise?  He'd have made a great Widmore.

The thing that gets me about Widmore (and this is totally stupid because it's just lighting probably) is that his eyes sometimes look completely black.  Almost like black marbles... like the eyes of the bad guy in that movie based on Stephen King's Storm of the Century.  Totally creepy eyes.  But then, other times, they look normal and blue. 

I can't believe you posted this!  I was going to ask for a screencap of Eloise when she gets pissed at Desmond because I told my wife that she gets such an evil look in her eyes, they almost look like they're turning black.  The screencap posted already shows Eloise while they're talking cordially, so I went to ABC.com and watched the scene again and for some reason, I didn't notice anything strange this time.  I was going to say that maybe they play a re-touched version when it airs, but the online video isn't re-touched, but then I thought that sounded stupid (as you also said above).

[PMMJ]

Yeah, we've kicked that horse around a bit, but it's not quite dead yet. Basically, the rebuttal to that is, "How responsible is Jacob for those deaths?" i.e. Jacob didn't shoot down flight 815, Desmond really would be the one to point a finger at. Jacob seems to just put himself in the way of the choices people make.

Jacob: That man who sent you to kill me believes that everyone is corruptible because it's in their very nature to sin. I bring people here to prove him wrong. And when they get here, their past doesn't matter.
Ricardos: Before you brought my ship, there were others?
Jacob: Yes, many.
Ricardos: What happened to them?
Jacob: They're all dead.
Ricardos: But if you brought them here, why didn't you help them?!

Maybe it's just me, but after the first few boatloads, you gotta give some of the blame to Jacob on this one. And even if he didn't literally down Oceanic 815, Jacob stacked that manifest with candidates for a reason, and it's not because he thought they'd have a smooth flight to LAX.

And as I've mentioned elsewhere, I still think that Smokey is an aspect of Jacob, somehow, so the point of 'who is worse' is somewhat moot. But still.

As for Widmore, he has done some pretty bad stuff, but the thing that kind of makes him most reviled by Lost fans seems to be his interference in the most popular love story in Lost...Desmond & Penny.

BAH. Give me Rose & Bernard any day of the week.