Author Topic: Widmore is the good guy?  (Read 11426 times)

Offline msdoran

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Widmore is the good guy?
« on: April 07, 2010, 03:56:54 PM »
So, is Widmore the good guy now? This whole series he has been made out to be this evil, villanous character who despised our beloved Desmond and went out of his way to make Des's life miserable.

Now I am starting to see a different side of him. He clearly is the "other person" Jacob was trying to help get to the island. So he is in cahoot's with Jacob. Now all of a sudden he seems to have a new respect for Desmond.

Perhaps in the original timeline he did not want Desmond with Penny because he did not want his beloved daughter caught up in all of this business.

This just leads to more questions. If he is cool with Jacob, and an ally, why was he ever expelled from the island? Also, it seems pretty clear how much he loves the island, why is he not a candidate to replace Jacob? Seems like if anyone could match wits with the MIB it would be Charles Widmore.

Perhaps he has accepted his fate of being a billionaire influencer in a transdimensional comical opera. I find it interesting that he and Eloise have been in contact in both timelines (and born children together). They are clearly foiles to each other. He appears to be keeping his enemy close. I agree with others statements that Eloise is the MIBs emissary. She is not to be trusted.

Offline lostfan777

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Re: Widmore is the good guy?
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2010, 04:07:11 PM »
I think Widmore broke some rules by fathering Penny off island and fell out of grace with Jacob and the island, not to mention Eloise.  But it was also Ben, who let power go to his head, that was instrumental in ejecting Charles from the island.  Ben often acted for his own benefit and may have used Jacob's name to gain power for himself.  Now, they will find themselves on the same team once again and it should be interesting to see how they deal with it.  Ben seems humbled enough to let someone else be in charge, but I can't see him forgiving Widmore for Alex's death.  Widmore may be ready to forgive Ben, because he ultimately didn't kill Penny when he had the chance, but can he once again take a backseat to whoever will be chosen to replace Jacob or will he try to gain control himself?  And will the chosen replacement have the coconuts to put the others in their place and lead?

Join us next time on 'As the island turns'.......

Offline opgelost

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Re: Widmore is the good guy?
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2010, 04:08:01 PM »
Eloise was choosen by Jacob too, she was the leader before Widmore.

Offline MachThree

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Re: Widmore is the good guy?
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2010, 04:36:57 PM »
I too am starting to see Widmore as a good guy.  I thought it was ambiguous but recently I've been leaning this way.  Why?

a) He seems to be with Eloise, especially in the Alt timeline.  I am pretty convinced that Eloise is well meaning, if perhaps not the greatest in her execution.  

b) He seems to be anti-Smokey, and so far we don't have much indication of his stance (these days) towards Jacob, even though he was once a Jacob-worshipping Other.  I don't think Smokey is good (nor do I think Jacob is good) so his anti-Smokeyness is a good thing I think.  

c) I do believe Desmond is good, and Desmond, with his new found insight,  now seems cool with Widmore's plan.

d) He seems to be in favor of avoiding the apparently horrific consequence of Smokey leaving the island (perhaps that aligns him with jacob though...)

Offline BobBX542

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Re: Widmore is the good guy?
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2010, 04:40:59 PM »
I usually don't do this, but here we go...

So, is Widmore the good guy now? This whole series he has been made out to be this evil, villanous character who despised our beloved Desmond and went out of his way to make Des's life miserable. In all honesty, all Widmore did at first was to not like a character we all really liked, and then he sent his army of Mercs to take out Ben, who as far as we all knew was the actual bad guy. That to me doesn't scream evil or villanous, but I did think he was a bad guy. You just have to keep things in perspective is all I'm saying.

Now I am starting to see a different side of him. He clearly is the "other person" Jacob was trying to help get to the island. So he is in cahoot's with Jacob. Now all of a sudden he seems to have a new respect for Desmond. I don't think he has any new found respect for Desmond, he just knows that he is going to be a key factor in what happens to the island, and knows that he needs to use that.

Perhaps in the original timeline he did not want Desmond with Penny because he did not want his beloved daughter caught up in all of this business. Umm, yes, possibly. LOL

This just leads to more questions. If he is cool with Jacob, and an ally, why was he ever expelled from the island? Ben sent him off of the island, not Jacob, and we all know Ben just wanted the power.Also, it seems pretty clear how much he loves the island, why is he not a candidate to replace Jacob? Because we really don't know what criteria they use to judge if someone is a cantidate. Perhaps "loving the island" is not even part of it. I mean look at Jack, he hated that place, and I think he's going to be the one that ends up being the guy Seems like if anyone could match wits with the MIB it would be Charles Widmore. Once again, yes, true that.

Perhaps he has accepted his fate of being a billionaire influencer in a transdimensional comical opera. I find it interesting that he and Eloise have been in contact in both timelines (and born children together). They are clearly foiles to each other. He appears to be keeping his enemy close. I agree with others statements that Eloise is the MIBs emissary. She is not to be trusted. No comment yet, still kind of fuzzy about what is going on here. Deffinitely a shady situation

I think Widmore broke some rules by fathering Penny off island and fell out of grace with Jacob and the island, not to mention Eloise.  But it was also Ben, who let power go to his head, that was instrumental in ejecting Charles from the island.  Ben often acted for his own benefit and may have used Jacob's name to gain power for himself.  Now, they will find themselves on the same team once again and it should be interesting to see how they deal with it.  Ben seems humbled enough to let someone else be in charge, but I can't see him forgiving Widmore for Alex's death.  Widmore may be ready to forgive Ben, because he ultimately didn't kill Penny when he had the chance, but can he once again take a backseat to whoever will be chosen to replace Jacob or will he try to gain control himself?  And will the chosen replacement have the coconuts to put the others in their place and lead?

Join us next time on 'As the island turns'.......

I think that Ben has definitely reached that place where he can give up control to someone else. I think it will interesting to see Ben and Widmore meet, and then Ben just do that thing where he flips the script and everyone just goes with it. He MIGHT explain that he was tricked by MIB to Widmore in order to get Charles to sympathize with him, but I don't think that Charles will believe him.

Offline opgelost

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Re: Widmore is the good guy?
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2010, 06:21:36 PM »
I too am starting to see Widmore as a good guy.  I thought it was ambiguous but recently I've been leaning this way.  Why?

a) He seems to be with Eloise, especially in the Alt timeline.  I am pretty convinced that Eloise is well meaning, if perhaps not the greatest in her execution.  

b) He seems to be anti-Smokey, and so far we don't have much indication of his stance (these days) towards Jacob, even though he was once a Jacob-worshipping Other.  I don't think Smokey is good (nor do I think Jacob is good) so his anti-Smokeyness is a good thing I think.  

c) I do believe Desmond is good, and Desmond, with his new found insight,  now seems cool with Widmore's plan.

d) He seems to be in favor of avoiding the apparently horrific consequence of Smokey leaving the island (perhaps that aligns him with jacob though...)

Widmore killed a man in the beginning of the show and forced Desmond to be a testbunny, because he wanted to know if what he heard about him was true. What if he fried Desmond, would that be good too?
I don't know if Desmond is cool with Widmore's plan. He turned too easily and in the end went with Sayid.

Offline CaseyMac

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Re: Widmore is the good guy?
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2010, 06:36:07 PM »
I'm not sure what to make of Widmore yet. At the beginning, it seemed he was clearly a bad guy, keeping Des and Penny apart and sending a bunch of soldiers to the Island to kill our beloved Losties. As time has gone on, my view of him has softened a bit. Seemingly wanting to protect his daughter from the heartbreak of losing Desmond, going mano y mano with everybody's favorite villian Ben, and now going up against the MIB.

I still wouldn't fully trust the guy, but he might be on the right side of the line in the sand at this point. As to him killing a man at the beginning of the show, I don't know how fair that is. It was an accident. If you want to blame someone, you should blame and fool who flipped the breaker, or the guy that kept the generator running with someone inside.

Offline BobBX542

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Re: Widmore is the good guy?
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2010, 06:37:59 PM »
As to him killing a man at the beginning of the show, I don't know how fair that is. It was an accident. If you want to blame someone, you should blame and fool who flipped the breaker, or the guy that kept the generator running with someone inside.

OH!! THAT is the guy everyone is saying he killed? Widmore wasn't even in the room at that point. Total accident.

Offline opgelost

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Re: Widmore is the good guy?
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2010, 06:58:32 PM »
I think they brought the bunny to test things first, but Widmore just puts Desmond in after the other man died.

Offline Madam P

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Re: Widmore is the good guy?
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2010, 07:25:01 PM »
I think they brought the bunny to test things first, but Widmore just puts Desmond in after the other man died.

Yeah, that was kinda cold.  Plus, he said something like "I've got to know if he (Des) can withstand exposure to electromagnetic energy."  Turns out he could, but what if he couldn't?  What was Plan B?  Seems like they just went to an awful lot of effort to grab Desmond and bring him to the island for whatever job it is they have in mind for him.  If it was me, I think I'd want to be sure all the "kinks" were worked out of the machine before just shoving an asset like Desmond in there like that.  But hey, Charles Widmore is nothing if he is not a man of action!

Offline Maxor127

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Re: Widmore is the good guy?
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2010, 06:11:06 AM »
Maybe I'm watching a different show, but Widmore still seems villainous to me.  He didn't seem to care about Desmond at all except to use him for an experiment, which could've killed him for all he knew.  And don't forget the mercs weren't sent to kill Ben.  They were sent to capture him.  But they WERE sent to kill everyone else on the island.  Maybe he has some greater good motive, but as far as I can tell, he has a selfish agenda.  The fact that he wants to "destroy" MIB or whatever he plans to do isn't for the good of the island but to remove his greatest threat at controlling the island.  I sure wouldn't want an invincible pissed off smoke monster roaming around if I was taking over the island.

As far the person who Jacob was trying to help get to the island, it could be Desmond rather than Widmore.

Offline Shmokin17

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Re: Widmore is the good guy?
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2010, 07:49:27 AM »
I get the feeling that Widmore is totally focussed on the bigger picture that he envisages. We do not have all the information yet to know exactly what the bigger picture is but I expect Desmond to have an important part in executing it. Giving emotional reactions to desmonds well being does not in anyway make his mission any easier.

To answer whether he is a good guy or not, well I think he is good at directing the execution of plans, unfortunately for him the outcome does not always go the way he wants as with the mercernary mission.

Widmore has always been one of the more entertaining and interesting characters even if his actions have been the most controversial.

Offline james_sawyer

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Re: Widmore is the good guy?
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2010, 08:06:54 AM »
he wanted to kill the baby alex ..he is not a good guy 

Offline lostfan777

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Re: Widmore is the good guy?
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2010, 09:46:14 AM »
Most of us wouldn't/couldn't kill someone even if we thought it was going to save others.  Alot of us think that the end doesn't justify the means in situations like that.  But this is a tv show.  Usually in tv and the movies, the good guys don't get innocent people killed while they chase the bad guys, but those shows are usually not very realistic.  Lost is written better than that, and although it is obviously still fiction, they are trying to portray the challenges the characters face as true as they can and the truth is, in real life, s**t happens and people get caught in the crossfire.  I say Widmore has a purpose and it isn't to make himself richer or become king of the island.  His purpose is greater than he is and Desmond is a tool to be used for that purpose.  If he gets sacrificed in reaching the goal, that is a necessary loss.  Cold, but that's the way I think they are going.

he wanted to kill the baby alex ..he is not a good guy 

I agree, I can't see how killing baby Alex could be justified.  I think Widmore was originally going to be a villain and although TPTB say they had this whole thing planned out, I think they changed course along the way in regard to some of the plot lines and they later decided Widmore needed to NOT be a villain.  They could explain this away in different ways, if someone pressed them for an explanation.  Such as: Widmore was acting on the orders of Jacob, and Jacob knew that Ben wouldn't kill Alex.  They could say it was Jacob's way of giving Ben the inspiration and motivation he needed to challenge Widmore, who had broken the rules (by fathering Penny off island) and was now out of Jacob's favor.  They could back it up by referring to how Ben's relationship with Alex has been so pivotal in both timelines, and how Jacob had higher hopes for Ben, right up until Ben stabbed him.  In this scenario, Widmore is not evil, he was only following orders.  Then after losing his position and more (Daniel, his relationship with Penny and his grandson) because of his human weaknesses, he is now stronger and more determined to redeem himself.  He and Ben are now in the same position, with Ben having lost the same leadership position and his 'daughter'.  And now, two of the guys we were meant to think were evil at one point are on the same team fighting for the good guys.

Of course, I could be 100% wrong about all of this, but as obvious as things sometimes seem (killing babies is wrong!), this is written fiction and they can turn it on a dime at any time. 

Offline Des

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Re: Widmore is the good guy?
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2010, 01:10:13 PM »
I keep reverting back to when Ben said that Widmore wanted to find the island again so he could exploit its powers. I know we have to take everything Ben says with a grain of salt ("why don't you believe me?!" "because you're speaking") but I think there may have been some truth in this.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2010, 10:02:14 AM by Des »