Author Topic: More reinforcement of MiB being bad  (Read 2482 times)

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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More reinforcement of MiB being bad
« on: April 07, 2010, 01:58:49 PM »
I know this seems like I am prodding for a fight here, but I'm not, just a fun thought here.

With the Writers being big fans of The Dark Tower, and everything Stephen King, I find it very hard to believe they would write a story arc where they refer to the misunderstood PROtagonist as "The Man in Black." The Man in Black is one of the most Iconic figures in the SK universe. They could easily have referred to him any way that would make him distinguishable. Just a thought on the subject.

Offline IFP

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Re: More reinforcement of MiB being bad
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2010, 03:06:03 AM »
Well, as much as I am coming to doubt that MIB might be a victim in all of this, "MIB" certainly implies evil, and, as you say, sync's with SK's MIB, but is that not a perfect way to mislead us?

Offline thebeann

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Re: More reinforcement of MiB being bad
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2010, 08:56:35 AM »
As with many LOST characters, MIB will have a grey area. Inherently good people do bad things - Sayid was a torturer, Kate killed her father, Sawyer was a con-man, etc. Some we aren't sure whether they fall on the good or bad side of the fence, like Ben (personally,  I think "good" but perhaps that remains to be seen).

And sometimes the bad people - even the ones we believe or know are inherently evil - have justification or at least some understandable reason for what they do. MIB will probably have a background story, we have already gotten hints of it. And even though there is a legitimate reason for it, he has been imprisoned for who knows how many years on the island, wanting only freedom. Personally, I don't think there is any question that MIB is the "bad" force in this drama. As smoke monster he has killed, maimed, and tortured since Episode 1. But I am willing to bet there is a reason why he went bad.

Now that I am on this train of thought...it occurred to me that Smokey appeared a little selective in his killing. He killed the pilot, killed Echo, didn't kill John Locke (though he tried to drag him into his underground tomb), and once Ben even summoned him to get rid of the merceneries...but smokey didn't kill them (beat them up pretty badly but as I recall, they were shown in a later scene). We can make some assumptions as to why people didn't get killed - say, they were candidates - but why not kill the merceneries? Yet he did kill the temple leftovers. Strange.

Offline CaseyMac

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Re: More reinforcement of MiB being bad
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2010, 01:49:57 PM »
In Season 1, when Sawyer and Michael were on the raft, I remember Sawyer singing Bob Marley's Redemption Song. Redemption has been an important theme for the characters, and I think that is what separates them from Smokey. While you are right in that Kate, Sawyer, Sayid, etc. all did bad things in their past, the Island gave them a chance to redeem themselves. Smokey on the otherhand doesn't seem to be concerned with redemption, only with his own selfish desire to escape.

As for not killing the mercenaries, I think it may have been more strategic. In military terms, it can be more effective to wound an enemy than it is to kill them. Because if you kill 1, then you take 1 person off the battlefield, if you wound 1, then it takes 3-4 others to tend to the wounded. I don't think the mercenaries were spared because of their "good" lives.

Offline thebeann

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Re: More reinforcement of MiB being bad
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2010, 02:52:33 PM »
In Season 1, when Sawyer and Michael were on the raft, I remember Sawyer singing Bob Marley's Redemption Song. Redemption has been an important theme for the characters, and I think that is what separates them from Smokey. While you are right in that Kate, Sawyer, Sayid, etc. all did bad things in their past, the Island gave them a chance to redeem themselves. Smokey on the otherhand doesn't seem to be concerned with redemption, only with his own selfish desire to escape.

As for not killing the mercenaries, I think it may have been more strategic. In military terms, it can be more effective to wound an enemy than it is to kill them. Because if you kill 1, then you take 1 person off the battlefield, if you wound 1, then it takes 3-4 others to tend to the wounded. I don't think the mercenaries were spared because of their "good" lives.

I just don't buy it. I believe the bulk of the mercenary team had surrounded Otherville and it would have made more sense to just kill them all. I don't believe for a second that Smokey was considering military strategy at this point. So then why kill the temple people? They were harmless for the most part, their leaders dead, and it would have made more strategic sense to let them live - since some of the temple folk jumped ship already, probably would not have been too hard to convince the rest (either via threat, or "see, I'm not a bad guy...I didn't kill you!").

The nonkilling of the mercenaries might just have been good drama (because we know we needed Keamy later) but it did make me wonder.

Offline CaseyMac

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Re: More reinforcement of MiB being bad
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2010, 07:30:21 PM »
In Season 1, when Sawyer and Michael were on the raft, I remember Sawyer singing Bob Marley's Redemption Song. Redemption has been an important theme for the characters, and I think that is what separates them from Smokey. While you are right in that Kate, Sawyer, Sayid, etc. all did bad things in their past, the Island gave them a chance to redeem themselves. Smokey on the otherhand doesn't seem to be concerned with redemption, only with his own selfish desire to escape.

As for not killing the mercenaries, I think it may have been more strategic. In military terms, it can be more effective to wound an enemy than it is to kill them. Because if you kill 1, then you take 1 person off the battlefield, if you wound 1, then it takes 3-4 others to tend to the wounded. I don't think the mercenaries were spared because of their "good" lives.

I just don't buy it. I believe the bulk of the mercenary team had surrounded Otherville and it would have made more sense to just kill them all. I don't believe for a second that Smokey was considering military strategy at this point. So then why kill the temple people? They were harmless for the most part, their leaders dead, and it would have made more strategic sense to let them live - since some of the temple folk jumped ship already, probably would not have been too hard to convince the rest (either via threat, or "see, I'm not a bad guy...I didn't kill you!").

The nonkilling of the mercenaries might just have been good drama (because we know we needed Keamy later) but it did make me wonder.

Frankly, I don't buy it all that much either, but I can play devil's advocate with it a bit more because it's a possible explanation.

First, I think Smokey / MIB has always been very strategic, especially lately.

So, why kill the temple people and not the boat people? Well the temple people didn't have reinforcements. That was their final sanctuary. Their last line of defense. The boaties had more people on the boat to become preoccupied tending to the wounded team, and to be too afraid to send anyone else to the island. The temple people just needed to be exterminated.

The temple people weren't harmless. They were armed and any one of them left alive could have mounted some sort of resistance to MIB...much like we are seeing with Illana et al. The temple people already had a choice, so he spared the ones that came with him, but those that didn't would be to loyal to be turned. If you give an ultimatum, you don't give 2.

You bring up an interesting point in that the story needed Keamy to live a little while longer to have the scene with Ben. However, what if Smokey needed Keamy to live a little longer as well. Meaning, it gave time for the Oceanic 6 to do their thing. It may have been part of Smokey's master plan of using Locke. But that idea makes my brain hurt.