Author Topic: A violation?  (Read 11051 times)

Offline nomteticus

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Re: A violation?
« Reply #30 on: April 07, 2010, 06:32:48 PM »
yeah, the whole conversation was weird
"a violation"
"you're not ready"

my thoughts,
if MIB actually can give people the thing they most want, then the thing he gave Eloise in return for her help was the life of her son

she had killed her own son in the original timeline, so MIB relieved her of her guilt and suffering by promising her that if she helped him then he could fix it so that murder would never happen



I agree with this. In the original timeline she had knowledge from Dan's journal, and in this timeline, MIB may have told her to be the guardian of the ATL by not allowing anyone to want to go baaaaack to the original miserable timeline.

Offline Madam P

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Re: A violation?
« Reply #31 on: April 07, 2010, 06:58:46 PM »
The somebody who made Desmond see things differently was Charlie. He violated the 'rule' of giving choices to people and letting them make up their own mind. Charlie purposely drove the car into the water to show Desmond that something wasn't right. He wasn't supposed to do that. 

No, the person was Widmore, if he hadn't put him in the magnet box, then alternate Desmond would have not had the vision of Charlie in the looking glass station.

I noticed that last night, too -- that the violation was not that Des was there, but that someone had shown him a viewpoint that he wasn't supposed to see.  My immediate thought was that it was Charlie like lostlady said, but now I think you're right -- it goes back further than that -- it was Widmore.  He was not supposed to send Des through that electromagnetic thingy.  So now it's sounding like Mr. Widmore and Mrs. Widmore are on the sides of Jacob and MIB, but which way is it?  Ahhhh, there's the rub.

Offline opgelost

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Re: A violation?
« Reply #32 on: April 07, 2010, 07:12:20 PM »
He wasn't supposed to see it yet.
He was not ready yet.
Sounds to me that now it will give him the wrong idea.
Something has to happen first to make him understand.

Eloise is on MIB's side. She send Locke to be a substiitute for MIB.

Offline nomteticus

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Re: A violation?
« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2010, 07:18:33 PM »
If Eloise is with MIB, then Alt-Charles is either in the dark (no pun intended) or also with MIB. He may have made a deal with Smokey. He was alone, left by his wife and daughther and having a dead son, while on the Alt world he's still a succesful business man, but also a family man. I think MIB makes everyone's dreams come true, but at what cost?

Offline Madam P

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Re: A violation?
« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2010, 07:31:47 PM »

Eloise is on MIB's side. She send Locke to be a substiitute for MIB.

But Christian was the one who talked to Locke at the bottom of the donkey-wheel-hole and told him he was going to have to die and told him he had to go back and bring the others back.  Was that MIB appearing as Christian, or was it Jacob?

Offline opgelost

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Re: A violation?
« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2010, 07:38:51 PM »
I don't think Widmore is on MIB's side.
I also don't think the sideworld is a world created by Smoky where he grants wishes.
I thought it was the non-manipulated world, where they make their own choices and there is free will,
where whatever happened happened and can't be changed and where the future is open and everything can happen.
I thought it was the place where Jacob and MIB came from to change the future.

But now the manipulations start there too and Eloise seems to know about the other timeline.
So I don't know if it still is the beginning of the loop, but than it would start with infiltrations from the crashtimeline to create that timeline
itself. And that is as weird as that they have to crash in 2004 to safe the island in 1977 and as a compass travelling for eternity and
as Daniel's diary existing twice. One that is still to be written and one allready finished.

Offline opgelost

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Re: A violation?
« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2010, 07:44:45 PM »

Eloise is on MIB's side. She send Locke to be a substiitute for MIB.

But Christian was the one who talked to Locke at the bottom of the donkey-wheel-hole and told him he was going to have to die and told him he had to go back and bring the others back.  Was that MIB appearing as Christian, or was it Jacob?

I don't know, but Christian told Locke to find Eloise, because she was the only one who could find the island and Eloise told Jack that Locke was needed as a substitute.

Offline jamesl

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Re: A violation?
« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2010, 09:32:01 PM »
Who has Sayid Tortured in the Side Flash?
..

we can be pretty sure Sayind was a torturer for the army in Iraq i nthe alt.
his brother came to him for help with the loan sharks and told Sayid, "I know what you did for the republican guard"
and Sayid tells Nadia "he doesn't derserve her" because he knows he's an evil person.

Offline Writers_Strike

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Re: A violation?
« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2010, 10:59:36 AM »
Unless charlie and Daniel were sent through space/time using a wooden box of destiny, then I don't think that Charles Widmore is the one who caused the violation she is referring to. I think that Charlie is who she was talking about.

Offline lostfan777

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Re: A violation?
« Reply #39 on: April 08, 2010, 11:00:48 AM »
If Eloise is with MIB, then Alt-Charles is either in the dark (no pun intended) or also with MIB. He may have made a deal with Smokey. He was alone, left by his wife and daughther and having a dead son, while on the Alt world he's still a succesful business man, but also a family man. I think MIB makes everyone's dreams come true, but at what cost?

You have a good point here.  Not only does Charles have his son alive, but Penny is on the guest list, so she is also in his life.  I'm not sure how happy his marriage is, though, he seemed a little scared of his wife!  I think Eloise seems like the most knowledgeable one here and perhaps Charles is 'in the dark' in the ATL.  In the original story, he and Eloise seemed to be separated, she even slapped him just for saying that Daniel was his son.  But I'm still confused as to who/what is responsible for this fake life because MIB didn't have a 'deal' with all of them.  Could Eloise be the most powerful of all?!

Offline lostlady

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Re: A violation?
« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2010, 11:11:39 AM »
Unless charlie and Daniel were sent through space/time using a wooden box of destiny, then I don't think that Charles Widmore is the one who caused the violation she is referring to. I think that Charlie is who she was talking about.

Yes, it was definitely Charlie. He got the wheels in motion so to speak in Desmond's head. After the near drowning the MRI further showed Desmond what was going on but Charlie got it all started by driving the car into the water. He wasn't supposed to do that--it violated the 'rules' that have been established probably having to do with  free will. Charlie didn't give Desmond free will to figure it out--he flat out showed him what was going on...

Offline BobBX542

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Re: A violation?
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2010, 01:37:49 PM »
The somebody who made Desmond see things differently was Charlie. He violated the 'rule' of giving choices to people and letting them make up their own mind. Charlie purposely drove the car into the water to show Desmond that something wasn't right. He wasn't supposed to do that. 

No, the person was Widmore, if he hadn't put him in the magnet box, then alternate Desmond would have not had the vision of Charlie in the looking glass station.

I noticed that last night, too -- that the violation was not that Des was there, but that someone had shown him a viewpoint that he wasn't supposed to see.  My immediate thought was that it was Charlie like lostlady said, but now I think you're right -- it goes back further than that -- it was Widmore.  He was not supposed to send Des through that electromagnetic thingy.  So now it's sounding like Mr. Widmore and Mrs. Widmore are on the sides of Jacob and MIB, but which way is it?  Ahhhh, there's the rub.

He wasn't supposed to see it yet.
He was not ready yet.
Sounds to me that now it will give him the wrong idea.
Something has to happen first to make him understand.

Eloise is on MIB's side. She send Locke to be a substiitute for MIB.

Exactly!! Widmore needed to know if Des could survive another Electromagnetic flibbity blah because there is going to be another Electroflabbity giggity smack, so he ran this test to see if he could survive. This test was unscheduled, and therefore showed Desmond something he wasn't suppossed to see...YET. Therefore, it was a violation of the temporal laws that Mrs. Hawking is in charge of.

Speaking of Mrs. Hawking being a time cop (AWESOME MOVIE!! GO JCVD), does anyone else find it strange that whenever we see her, she wants to keep the current time line the way it is?? In the first episode where she explains to Des about the course correction and what have you, she is determined to keep the time line intact by telling Desmond what he has to do (i.e. go to the island, push button, etc.). In the Alternate time line, she tells Desmond that there is no need for him to go looking for anything else, because he has everything he wants. Makes me think...

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: A violation?
« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2010, 02:00:06 PM »
Who has Sayid Tortured in the Side Flash?
..

we can be pretty sure Sayind was a torturer for the army in Iraq i nthe alt.
his brother came to him for help with the loan sharks and told Sayid, "I know what you did for the republican guard"
and Sayid tells Nadia "he doesn't derserve her" because he knows he's an evil person.

Retract. Apologies

Offline lostlady

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Re: A violation?
« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2010, 04:23:38 PM »
The somebody who made Desmond see things differently was Charlie. He violated the 'rule' of giving choices to people and letting them make up their own mind. Charlie purposely drove the car into the water to show Desmond that something wasn't right. He wasn't supposed to do that. 

No, the person was Widmore, if he hadn't put him in the magnet box, then alternate Desmond would have not had the vision of Charlie in the looking glass station.

yes, Widmore put Desmond in the box and may have violated a "rule" by sending Desmond's conciousness to the alt. however, Desmond had that entire alt  and it did not make any impact on him until Charlie drove him in the water and showed him what he wasn't getting. Without Charlie, he wouldn't have been enlightened in the alt.Therefore by Charlie explictily showing him this, Charlie violated a 'rule' that ticked off old Eloise........

Offline lostfan777

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Re: A violation?
« Reply #44 on: April 08, 2010, 04:31:06 PM »
The somebody who made Desmond see things differently was Charlie. He violated the 'rule' of giving choices to people and letting them make up their own mind. Charlie purposely drove the car into the water to show Desmond that something wasn't right. He wasn't supposed to do that. 

No, the person was Widmore, if he hadn't put him in the magnet box, then alternate Desmond would have not had the vision of Charlie in the looking glass station.

yes, Widmore put Desmond in the box and may have violated a "rule" by sending Desmond's conciousness to the alt. however, Desmond had that entire alt  and it did not make any impact on him until Charlie drove him in the water and showed him what he wasn't getting. Without Charlie, he wouldn't have been enlightened in the alt.Therefore by Charlie explictily showing him this, Charlie violated a 'rule' that ticked off old Eloise........

Like the lady said, when you deal with bad boy rockers, "a certain unpredictability comes with the territory."  ;D