Author Topic: A violation?  (Read 11052 times)

Offline Walkabout V.2

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Re: A violation?
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2010, 10:09:10 AM »
She appears to be the wisest of them all in terms of the isalnd and both time lines. Why? I have no idea.

remember MIB's crazy mother ?

Elosie


I'll buy it for a buck on the condition she is Jacob's loving mum too.

Offline Writers_Strike

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Re: A violation?
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2010, 10:11:30 AM »
She appears to be the wisest of them all in terms of the isalnd and both time lines. Why? I have no idea.

remember MIB's crazy mother ?

Elosie


I'll buy it for a buck on the condition she is Jacob's loving mum too.
I'd hope not since she was a young lass with no knowlage of time travel back in '54.

Offline CastawayCayley

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Re: A violation?
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2010, 10:21:18 AM »
Her knowledge must be why she didn't try to prevent Daniel going to the island where he would time travel and she would kill him.  She knows something important and good will come out of it.
No good every comes from killing one's own child.  period.

Even if your kid is Hitler?

Godwin's Law?

Offline RM

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Re: A violation?
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2010, 11:26:46 AM »
Yeah, she definitely seems to be some kind of Time Cop (or, Multiple Universes Cop).

Back when she said, "For the first time in my life, I don't know what's going to happen" I thought it was just that all of the time-travel events had finally come full circle so she didn't have any more advanced knowledge.  Now, with this bit with Desmond, she seems to understand everything that has happened and that they've done a massive "do-over" where everyone "has what they wanted", but memories are bleeding through.

I guess we already knew that Desmond could see alternate realities when he kept seeing different ways that Charlie was going to die.  That was always a different quality than his consciousness-jumping back and forth inside the same timeline between the freighter and his army days.  Don't see how this jumping between the EM room and Penny X is just a time shift only.

So now they seem to be saying that the X timeline is the fulfillment of promises made by MIB (and Jacob?) to the Losties.  But Charlie is the first one (and then Daniel) to be saying that the X timeline isn't what they should be happy with.  They both want to go back to the original timeline.  Or maybe they can course-correct the X timeline so that everyone gets to be with the ones they're "supposed to" be with.

So why is Eloise so against Desmond getting a clue?  Can she be Team MIB?  She was instrumental in getting the O6 back to the Island to fulfill MIB's plan to kill Jacob.


Offline lostlady

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Re: A violation?
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2010, 11:30:12 AM »
I think Eloise is connected to MIB somehow. Also, I just had a thought... it's interesting that Charlie and Daniel see that timeline X is not what they should be happy with. They are both dead in the other timeline. It seems to me they wouldn't want the other timeline but yet, they are the ones who are getting Desmond to change it... ???

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: A violation?
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2010, 12:12:49 PM »
So are the sideflashes really just flashforwards after Mib gives everyone whant they wanted most in life. Kinda like The Nexxus Ribbon in Star Trek: Generations. Desmond is in violation because he is occupied by island desmond and is not ready to be there. Or maybe it is some kind of Trueman Show? I think I just confused myself.

I quite like this thought with the exception of MiB actually winning in the end. I am not dismissing it now, I am simply inferring that I don't think we have come as far as we have, and watched our hero's grow just to have them fall short. This is of course inferring that MiB IS the bad guy. Holding that stance till MiB actually does something that is GOOD.

Offline lostfan777

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Re: A violation?
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2010, 01:48:03 PM »
yeah, the whole conversation was weird
"a violation"
"you're not ready"

my thoughts,
if MIB actually can give people the thing they most want, then the thing he gave Eloise in return for her help was the life of her son

she had killed her own son in the original timeline, so MIB relieved her of her guilt and suffering by promising her that if she helped him then he could fix it so that murder would never happen



They keep referring to the flashes as being what people wanted, but not everyone made a deal with MIB, as least not that we have been shown.  Desmond never made a deal with him, and even if he did, what he's always wanted was Penny, not just approval of her father.  Don't know what it all means yet.......

Offline Madam P

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Re: A violation?
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2010, 02:12:23 PM »
She appears to be the wisest of them all in terms of the isalnd and both time lines. Why? I have no idea.

remember MIB's crazy mother ?

Elosie


I'll buy it for a buck on the condition she is Jacob's loving mum too.

So Daniel and Penny and MIB and Jacob are all siblings / half-siblings?  Ehhhh... that's starting to sound like that soap opera "The Bold and The Beautiful"...

If this all boils down to one big love story and who's with who and who's supposed to be with who... I'm going to feel very let-down...

Offline opgelost

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Re: A violation?
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2010, 03:05:02 PM »
Time travel joke... "Everyone tries to kill Hitler their first time."

But why does no one try to save Hitler?  In the Lost version of time travel Hitler could have been an artist instead of a politician if his past was changed.

I don't think so. Mikhail, Keamy, Paik, bad in both worlds. Kate running in both, Locke angry in both, Sayid torturer in both, Sawyer
looking for Cooper in both. They are the same people.
Desmond still trying to save Charly from dead and drowning.

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: A violation?
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2010, 03:10:29 PM »
Who has Sayid Tortured in the Side Flash?

Who is Locke so angry at in the Side Flash that he lets it control his life?

How is Kate the same? Besides a run from the law, the circumstances are very different.

Sawyer still looking for the man who caused his parents to die...Not really the same as being a Con Man. Pretty much the opposite since he has been shown putting con men away.


Offline MachThree

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Re: A violation?
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2010, 03:14:58 PM »
I too don't understand what it is that makes Hawking show up in Desmond's flashes, etc.  I thought her knowledge stemmed from Faraday's journal and having encountered the losties in the past, but then her knowledge would have ended at the point where the original 815'ers who were on the Ajira flight time flashed back to the 70's, as that was the farthest into the future that anyone who showed up in 1977 made it before that point. 

If eloise / Faraday are somehow related to MiB and/or Jacob, I wouldn't be surprised, but I'm not yet convinced either. 

Offline CaseyMac

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Re: A violation?
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2010, 03:24:19 PM »
I too don't understand what it is that makes Hawking show up in Desmond's flashes, etc.  I thought her knowledge stemmed from Faraday's journal and having encountered the losties in the past, but then her knowledge would have ended at the point where the original 815'ers who were on the Ajira flight time flashed back to the 70's, as that was the farthest into the future that anyone who showed up in 1977 made it before that point. 

I was totally with you on this one. The only anomoly that had bugged me was when Eloise was in Desmond's mini-sideflash in the season 3 "Flashes Before Your Eyes". It didn't really fit the mold. Even then she seemed to have a deeper understanding of the timeline situation. Perhaps, like Desmond or Hurley, Eloise has her own unique ability.

Offline BobBX542

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Re: A violation?
« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2010, 05:01:14 PM »
Time travel joke... "Everyone tries to kill Hitler their first time."

But why does no one try to save Hitler?  In the Lost version of time travel Hitler could have been an artist instead of a politician if his past was changed.

I don't think so. Mikhail, Keamy, Paik, bad in both worlds. Kate running in both, Locke angry in both, Sayid torturer in both, Sawyer
looking for Cooper in both. They are the same people.
Desmond still trying to save Charly from dead and drowning.

Who has Sayid Tortured in the Side Flash?

Who is Locke so angry at in the Side Flash that he lets it control his life?

How is Kate the same? Besides a run from the law, the circumstances are very different.

Sawyer still looking for the man who caused his parents to die...Not really the same as being a Con Man. Pretty much the opposite since he has been shown putting con men away.



Before you guys start going back and forth at it, trying to convince the other, you're both right. In both timelines, all of the characters are leading Similar, but different lives. Using Kate as the example, Yes she is running, but in the original time line, she killed her father, and in the Alternate time line, she killed someone else (at the risk of it being a spoiler, I won't post it, but you can search it your self on youtube. Look for the Lost comicon video).

As for the topic at hand, I just watched the episode again at lunch, and caught something I didn't notice before. When she tells Desmond it's a violation, she's not saying that Desmond violated any rules (or what have you), but that the violation is that someone made Desmond see things differently.

Offline lostlady

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Re: A violation?
« Reply #28 on: April 07, 2010, 05:50:41 PM »
The somebody who made Desmond see things differently was Charlie. He violated the 'rule' of giving choices to people and letting them make up their own mind. Charlie purposely drove the car into the water to show Desmond that something wasn't right. He wasn't supposed to do that. 

Offline BobBX542

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Re: A violation?
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2010, 06:29:29 PM »
The somebody who made Desmond see things differently was Charlie. He violated the 'rule' of giving choices to people and letting them make up their own mind. Charlie purposely drove the car into the water to show Desmond that something wasn't right. He wasn't supposed to do that. 

No, the person was Widmore, if he hadn't put him in the magnet box, then alternate Desmond would have not had the vision of Charlie in the looking glass station.