Author Topic: All those who think ALT = Original...  (Read 2166 times)

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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All those who think ALT = Original...
« on: April 01, 2010, 05:45:59 PM »
How do we explain the fact that Losties seem to be having some senses of Deja Vu in the ALT. If THAT is the original timeline, then those things never happened. Just a thought.

Offline opgelost

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Re: All those who think ALT = Original...
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2010, 07:10:38 PM »
I see it as the alt is the original timeline. From there you travel to the past and go to the year 0 for example.
You do history over again from the year 0, but you know what happened in the original timeline, because you lived there. Now you choose a group of people, people you knew in the original timeline and know what they did. In the second timeline you want them to make other choices than the ones you know they made in the original time. You start manipulating them and they will reach the year 2004 in a different way as different people. They don't know it. They think this is the one and only universe. But you know that you changed things and there was another timeline where things went different, where you didn't affect their choices, because you didn't knew what the effect of their choices would be.
Now in 2004 there are 2 universes. The original where whatever happened happened and the second one, where things are manipulated and changed. 

Faraday thought that whatever happened, but later he changed his mind and he thought history could be manipulated.

If you now from that second timeline decide to travel back to the year 0 and further back to the point where you first travelled from, that is 2004 in the original timeline, you are back from where you started and all the people that lived in the second timeline cease to be the people they are there and are their original selves again in the universe that was not manipulated and you cannot manipulate anymore, because you don't know what will happen. Everybody is free and the future is unknown. The second timeline than will be gone and has never existed and everyone who died there could be alive again.

The deja vues are because there is a second universe going on at the same time. A manipulated and changed one.

Offline DirtyMaggieMae

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Re: All those who think ALT = Original...
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2010, 08:00:36 PM »
I see it as the alt is the original timeline. From there you travel to the past and go to the year 0 for example.
You do history over again from the year 0, but you know what happened in the original timeline, because you lived there. Now you choose a group of people, people you knew in the original timeline and know what they did. In the second timeline you want them to make other choices than the ones you know they made in the original time. You start manipulating them and they will reach the year 2004 in a different way as different people. They don't know it. They think this is the one and only universe. But you know that you changed things and there was another timeline where things went different, where you didn't affect their choices, because you didn't knew what the effect of their choices would be.
Now in 2004 there are 2 universes. The original where whatever happened happened and the second one, where things are manipulated and changed. 

Faraday thought that whatever happened, but later he changed his mind and he thought history could be manipulated.

If you now from that second timeline decide to travel back to the year 0 and further back to the point where you first travelled from, that is 2004 in the original timeline, you are back from where you started and all the people that lived in the second timeline cease to be the people they are there and are their original selves again in the universe that was not manipulated and you cannot manipulate anymore, because you don't know what will happen. Everybody is free and the future is unknown. The second timeline than will be gone and has never existed and everyone who died there could be alive again.

The deja vues are because there is a second universe going on at the same time. A manipulated and changed one.
I'm trying to wrap my wee little mind around this.  So you are saying that the last 5 seasons have been the alternate timeline, and this one in season 6 is the "pure" timeline.  Putting the puzzle together this way gets some interesting results.  For example, Jack had his appendix removed at age 8 in the original timeline.  When the alternate happens the universe has to course correct and leads up to Juliet removing it.  Gosh it's like trying to read a book backwards...the story is all there still, but you see the effects first rather than the cause.

Offline lostlady

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Re: All those who think ALT = Original...
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2010, 08:34:30 PM »
Is this why Daniel's mother (Hawking) said last season that :(paraphrasing here)For the first time ever she doesn't know what will happen next?

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: All those who think ALT = Original...
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2010, 11:43:16 AM »
I see it as the alt is the original timeline. From there you travel to the past and go to the year 0 for example.
You do history over again from the year 0, but you know what happened in the original timeline, because you lived there. Now you choose a group of people, people you knew in the original timeline and know what they did. In the second timeline you want them to make other choices than the ones you know they made in the original time. You start manipulating them and they will reach the year 2004 in a different way as different people. They don't know it. They think this is the one and only universe. But you know that you changed things and there was another timeline where things went different, where you didn't affect their choices, because you didn't knew what the effect of their choices would be.
Now in 2004 there are 2 universes. The original where whatever happened happened and the second one, where things are manipulated and changed. 

Faraday thought that whatever happened, but later he changed his mind and he thought history could be manipulated.

If you now from that second timeline decide to travel back to the year 0 and further back to the point where you first travelled from, that is 2004 in the original timeline, you are back from where you started and all the people that lived in the second timeline cease to be the people they are there and are their original selves again in the universe that was not manipulated and you cannot manipulate anymore, because you don't know what will happen. Everybody is free and the future is unknown. The second timeline than will be gone and has never existed and everyone who died there could be alive again.

The deja vues are because there is a second universe going on at the same time. A manipulated and changed one.
I'm trying to wrap my wee little mind around this.  So you are saying that the last 5 seasons have been the alternate timeline, and this one in season 6 is the "pure" timeline.  Putting the puzzle together this way gets some interesting results.  For example, Jack had his appendix removed at age 8 in the original timeline.  When the alternate happens the universe has to course correct and leads up to Juliet removing it.  Gosh it's like trying to read a book backwards...the story is all there still, but you see the effects first rather than the cause.

Then Juliet course corrected him in his thirties. He still wasn't on the island when he was 8. He would have still had his appendix taken out at 8. I am talking about them in the "Original" Timeline seemingly remembering things from the ALT that has yet to happen. Saying that they are happening simultaneously is not the same as saying that one is the original. I get the theory, but it only makes sense without the Deja Vu's.

Offline DirtyMaggieMae

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Re: All those who think ALT = Original...
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2010, 12:19:12 PM »
Yeah, after I had posted this I was laying in bed last night thinking, "wait...that doesn't make sense!  The DEJA VOOOO!"  I don't know, maybe there has ALWAYS been several timelines...but something has caused these two varieties of the LOSTies universe to converge.  Maybe instead of splitting time with the bomb it broke down whatever keeps alternate realities separate? 

For clarity's sake, can we call the timelines "sideways" and "island" instead of original and alt!  Since some are saying "island" is alt, and "sideways" is original, I think it would save me from a lot of head scratching!!  Um, but maybe it's just me!

edit: for the purposes of this thread only, really! 

Offline jugdish

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Re: All those who think ALT = Original...
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2010, 09:27:01 PM »
I have no idea what the alt time line is all about . I do know that they are very frustrating to me. I have a hard time watching them because I don't know if I should care about them at all. Are they important? If they are important then I watched 5 seasons of  not important time lines. Which will really upset me. Either Jack has a kid or not. Which is it?

Offline opgelost

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Re: All those who think ALT = Original...
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2010, 09:29:24 AM »
Jack has a kid in one timeline, his name is David.
In the other he is not born and not named, but according to me, exists like everybody else and appears as black smoke.

Offline DirtyMaggieMae

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Re: All those who think ALT = Original...
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2010, 02:37:27 PM »
Jack has a kid in one timeline, his name is David.
In the other he is not born and not named, but according to me, exists like everybody else and appears as black smoke.

But everyone who exists still has the same parents.  Jack still has Margo and Christian, Sun's dad is still Paik, Ji Yeon is of Sun and Jin, but who would the parents of the smoke be?  Let's just pretend that David's mom is Juliet.  How in the island timeline will Juliet and Jack have a child and then end up being ths smoke?  I'd like to be able to follow this theory a little bit better.

Offline jamesl

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Re: All those who think ALT = Original...
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2010, 04:29:44 PM »
the Deja Vu isn't real
its just the writes and directors playing games with us to confuse and wrap the show in more mystery
the actors are just doing a good job at convincing us

Offline DirtyMaggieMae

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Re: All those who think ALT = Original...
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2010, 06:09:24 PM »
the Deja Vu isn't real
its just the writes and directors playing games with us to confuse and wrap the show in more mystery
the actors are just doing a good job at convincing us

I guess I don't feel it's deja vu in the traditional sense, but more like the timelines actually melding together...?

Offline RM

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Re: All those who think ALT = Original...
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2010, 07:18:38 PM »
I agree that the "deja vu" moments in the "X" timeline are just a dramatic contrivance.

Jack has an appendix scar in "X" that predates his appendix operation by Juliet in the original timeline, so it's not even just a case of "parallel universes" where their consciousness are bleeding through.

I think the original timeline is going to end completely (with nothingness) and everyone will be swapped back to the point where they ceased to exist in the "X" timeline (i.e., the 9/22/04 plane trip).  But with these "trans-universe" beings Jacob, MIB, (Aaron?) ceasing to exist, then their presence in the alternate timelines will be removed as well and you will end up with an "X" timeline with no influence by Jacob on anyone and we see the development of their lives with the variations that they are showing us.

Offline Rebel 3:16

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Re: All those who think ALT = Original...
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2010, 08:43:59 PM »
I am still going with the timeline 'splitting' in 1977, with Jughead.

What 'splits' time, I am not sure yet but we have 5 seasons of a timeline that ends with 815 crashing on the Island thanks to Desmond not pressing the button and this season where 815 does not crash where by either Desmond presses the button or there was no button to be pressed.

After seeing the Island under water in LA-X then thats why I am thinking Jughead maybe sunk the Island, and so there was no button to be pressed.

As we are seeing so far this season, the Island along with Jacob and MiB is well and truely afloat, so with next weeks episode...


I erased because this is a no spoiler thread.

Juggy
« Last Edit: April 05, 2010, 12:16:51 AM by Jugdish »

Offline opgelost

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Re: All those who think ALT = Original...
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2010, 11:43:43 AM »
Jack has a kid in one timeline, his name is David.
In the other he is not born and not named, but according to me, exists like everybody else and appears as black smoke.

But everyone who exists still has the same parents.  Jack still has Margo and Christian, Sun's dad is still Paik, Ji Yeon is of Sun and Jin, but who would the parents of the smoke be?  Let's just pretend that David's mom is Juliet.  How in the island timeline will Juliet and Jack have a child and then end up being ths smoke?  I'd like to be able to follow this theory a little bit better.

In my head, it ends up smoke, because it isn't born. The events in the crashtimeline are manipulated in such a way by Jacob that David Shepard is  not born and has no body. But as he is supposed to exist, because he existed in the original not-manipulated non-crashtimeline, his consciousness or soul is there. (They spend an entire episode teaching us about timetravelling consciousnesses).

The black smoke knows he is supposed to exist as a body too. I think he has the bodies of Jack and his not shown mother (maybe Libby) from the original timeline in the cave. (Adam and Eve)

That consciousness wants a body. He now can only use empty bodies of people that died, like Yemi's and Locke's and maybe Christian's.
But he is trapped on an island where no babies can be born since I believe the day David Shepard was supposed to be born (in 1977 Ethan was born).

To answer your question, I don't think Jack's kid turned into smoke after being born in this timeline, it just isn't born in this timeline and Jack needs to give him his body, because he now only is soul or thought or consciousness. Jack needs to ignore Jacob and bring MIB to the other timeline where he has a body and a house or let's hope he impregnated Kate the day before they returned to the island.

You only have to assume that MIB is not evil and that the sidetime is the original one where he wants to go and everything you watched the last 6 years will fit.
From Sarah leaving Jack because of Gabriella before he could have a kid to Jack not supposed to raise HIM (Aaron) to Christian bringing Jack to the cave where Adam and Eve are to John Locke sacrifising himself to become MIB's body and seeing a beautifull light to why Eko was bad to the meaning of all the titles  as raised by another, homecoming, there is no place like home, abbandoned, eggtown, maternity leave, the meaning of live together die alone.
The meaning of all the parent-kid issues, all the bibblical references to sacrificing the son, the meaning of the land of Oz and the land of Alice, that both return to their original timeline and their sweet home in the end. All the references to books like Ullyses returning home, the bunnies that want a home and George and Lenny wanting a home. To the picture of MIB in the center of the table in the lost supper. To MIB's sentences as "once we are on thet plane whatever happens happens" to Widmores if that thing leaves the island we all cease to be. Why no new life is allowed on the island and why Smoky needed pregnant Rousseau and Jacob ordered to kill the baby. And watch how they cast kids. Look at young Ben and adult Ben, look at young Kate and adult Kate, look at young Hurley and adult Hurley and than look at young Aaron and Jacob and David Shepard and the Man in black. Also why they showed us that it is possible to travel to the past (1977) and probably it is possible to change things that happened and manipulate people into doing things (Did Sayid change Ben? Did Chang evacuate the island, because Faraday told him?) and why they told us about timetravelling consciosnesses.

Just try to think as MIB as being the good one and the island as a prison and everything we watched makes perfect sense.
If Jacob is the good one, I still cannot see the final picture, that the hundreds of puzzlepieces they gave us, have to make. The only final picture I can see is them all being alife in the original timeline, Locke marrying Helen, Jack and Kate raising David, Claire and Charlie raising Aaron, Ben teaching history and taking care of Alex and his father, Hurley a nice, lucky man finding Libby, Sun and Jin having Ji Yeon and raising her together from the start, Sawyer finding Juliet and accepting his past, Michael raising Walt, Jack operating Locke, Desmond happy with Penny, Keamy dead, Sayid marrying Nadia, Widmore claening toilets in Ben's school and the island deep under the sealevel.

And I don't buy that people that make such a wonderfull show, made a mistake by making Smoky kill Eko, because the actor wanted to leave the show. They totally know what they are doing, from episode 1 where Smoky killed the man, that wasn't supposed to fly the plane, but brought a new group of people to that awfull island to die or loose everything there.