Author Topic: If Jin and Son are not married...  (Read 4268 times)

Offline opgelost

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Re: If Jin and Son are not married...
« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2010, 07:14:35 PM »
No, I don't see them as I don't see previews.

Offline lostandfree

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Re: If Jin and Son are not married...
« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2010, 08:48:47 PM »
They aren't in the previews.  It's just during a replay of an episode.  For example, most weeks they show last weeks episode at 8 pm followed by the new episode at 9 pm.  The 8 pm episode is "enhanced" with trivia, etc.

Offline CaseyMac

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Re: If Jin and Son are not married...
« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2010, 09:05:17 PM »
I think it's a moot point now anyways thanks to Dancing with the C-list Celebrities

Offline lostandfree

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Re: If Jin and Son are not married...
« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2010, 09:46:30 PM »
blah...I'd rather watch LOST.   :)

Offline CaseyMac

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Re: If Jin and Son are not married...
« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2010, 10:43:06 PM »
Yeah, I don't care how hot the girls are on that show. It's ballroom dancing for goodness sake. BALLROOM...DANCING! WTF?!?

Offline DirtyMaggieMae

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Re: If Jin and Son are not married...
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2010, 10:45:19 PM »
Yeah, I don't care how hot the girls are on that show. It's ballroom dancing for goodness sake. BALLROOM...DANCING! WTF?!?
I remember enjoying watching PROFESSIONAL dancing on PBS as a kid.  Back before all the lights and judges and "celebrities" it really made the dancing stand out.  Still, God knows I can't cut any part of a rug myself.

Offline WhatThe

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Re: If Jin and Son are not married...
« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2010, 04:02:46 AM »
The "enhanced" episodes make it clear that the flash sideways shows us "what would have happened if flight 815 did not crash on the island".  This takes us back to the chicken vs. egg causality discussions that happened so much last season, but to me it essentially means:  every difference they show in the flash sideways can be causally linked to 815 not crashing on the island.

I think it goes further back than that.  Reason being, the island was under water during flight 815.  So something happened before the flight even took place to change things.  What and when, remains to be seen.

I guess I didn't state my position clearly enough.  It has been shown pretty well in previous seasons that there is a definite difference between the chain of causality and the sequence of time.  I am not saying that the differences in the flash sideways *started* (in a time sequence sense) with Flight 815 not crashing on the island -- there are lots and lots of things that have already proven this wrong.  I am saying that the differences in the flash sideways are *causally linked* to Flight 815 not crashing.  It leads to all sorts of interesting questions, but I think many of them are fruitful:

For example, we already know one.  Flight 815 not crashing started a causality chain that ends with Ben being a history teacher instead of the leader of the Others.  This goes something like:  Flight 815 doesn't crash, therefore Sayid doesn't come to the island, therefore Sayid doesn't travel back in time, therefore Sayid doesn't shoot young Ben in the stomach, therefore young Ben is never taken to the Others' temple to be healed, but instead leaves the Island peacefully with his father and goes back to the mainland where his intellectual bent eventually leads him to become a history teacher.  Because of the timeline disruptions, the chain of causality explains all sorts of differences that pre-date the plane crash (or lack thereof), even though they were caused by it.

Another example, Jin and Sun.  (The topic of this thread.)  Flight 815 does not crash, therefore Jin does not come to the island, therefore Jin does not travel back to 1974 Dharma, therefore something does not happen that would have convinced Sun's father to let her marry Jin, therefore Jin and Sun (when they eventually meet) become lovers instead of husband and wife, therefore Sun's father contracts to have them killed.  In the original timeline, there was no $25,000 in Jin's luggage; there was no contract on their life; and they were married (albeit unhappily).  I'm saying that, from a certain perspective, those differences were *caused* by the plane not crashing.

This is fun!

Lastly, the mother of all the crazy causality chains... Flight 815 did not crash on the island, therefore (what?) and therefore the island is underwater long before Flight 815 ever passes over it.  I have a feeling we'll learn what this chain of causality is in the upcoming episodes, and that Widmore's geophysicist will have something to do with it.

However, I can't think of anything involving the crash that would lead Sawyer or Miles to become Policemen instead of a con man and a "ghost whisperer" lol. Sawyer's decision to "become a cop instead of a criminal" doesn't appear to be tied directly or indirectly to anything associated with any of the events that took place after the original plane crash. The only thing that would possibly tie them together would be Sawyer becoming security chief (or whatever his title was) in Dharma, and that somehow causing his alternate self to choose something along the same lines at around the same time in his alternate life.

Perhaps the "island" (jacob) needed Sawyer and Miles to be the persons they originally were in order to end up on the island, but once the island was sunk there was no external force "guiding" any of the Losties to their destinations, and things just happened as they happened.

Offline JMart

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Re: If Jin and Son are not married...
« Reply #37 on: April 03, 2010, 01:27:44 AM »
Don't trust the pop-ups. They are not written by the LOST writers, they are written by ABC, and it has been shown several times they are wrong.

This.


The pop ups are not actually part of the show so we cannot take what they say as true.  They are probably written by someone who doesn't even watch LOST.

highly doubtful.

Offline mushermellon

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Re: If Jin and Son are not married...
« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2010, 01:42:17 AM »
Don't trust the pop-ups. They are not written by the LOST writers, they are written by ABC, and it has been shown several times they are wrong.
This.

The pop ups are not actually part of the show so we cannot take what they say as true.  They are probably written by someone who doesn't even watch LOST.

Oh, come on people.  So sometime, something the popups said was proven incorrect.  Sure they're not written by the core writers of the show.  But that does not make them useless, or prove that they NEVER say anything correct or insightful?  I seriously doubt they go out without any vetting by the writers whatsoever (especially if errors have crept in in the past).  You can't discount an argument just because it aligns with something stated in the popups.

Well, first of all, you are right in a certain respect. They have said a few things that were insightful, but they were things we already knew from watching the show. Second, the producers and writers of the show have stated on several occasions that they have nothing to do with the enhanced episodes, so short story long, yes, they do go out without any vetting by the writers what so ever (which is apparent in the episode form this season regarding the parents of the kids at the temple. I'm forgetting their names, Zack and Emma I believe). As for discounting theories/idea, we can discount any ideas or theories we want norville, for whatever reasons we want, but that doesn't have to stop you from posting what you believe. Just know that there are people (myself included) that will argue the points you make based on the info gained from the enhanced episodes.

@norville and Thomas- I think you're not taking a few things into consideration. Specifically the issue with Ben and his dad, Ben's dad had psychologically abusing him for years before the bomb went off in S5 all because of Ben's mother dying during Ben's birth. It seems like that might not be the case in the flashsideways. In Dr. Linus, Roger tells Ben that he wanted a better life for him, and that they left the island voluntarily...

ROGER: This isn't the life I wanted for you, Ben. I wanted so much more.

BEN: I know.

ROGER: That's why I signed up for that damn Dharma Initiative and took you to the island, and... they were decent people. Smarter than I'll ever be. Imagine how different our lives would have been if we'd stayed.

Lostpedia transcript of Dr. Linus http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Dr._Linus_transcript

I don't know about you, but I got the distinct impression that there was no animosity between them at all. As for the Sun and Jin situation norville, I don't understand how you came to the conclusion that something Jin did on the island in 1974/or something that happened on the island in 1974 is what made Sun's father agree to Sun and Jin getting married, care to elaborate??
yes!  I was thinking this too about Ben and his Dad.  Like maybe his Mom didn't die?

Offline BobBX542

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Re: If Jin and Son are not married...
« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2010, 01:21:19 PM »
yes!  I was thinking this too about Ben and his Dad.  Like maybe his Mom didn't die?

Well, possibly the mom did die, and even during child birth, but in this alternate timeline the source of the animosity between them seems to have been removed. In the original timeline when you look at Ben and Roger arriving on the island, they seem happy, Ben appears a little off, but I just took that as him just being a shy kid or whatever. After Roger starts getting hosed by the D.I. in the job he is given, the dangerous work conditions, etc. He really starts to take it out on Ben. Maybe in the alternate timeline, he sees what is happening between him and Ben, and instead of drinking it away, he decides to tell Horace he needs to leave, and that is what makes puts them on good ground as it were.

Offline nomteticus

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Re: If Jin and Son are not married...
« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2010, 05:42:07 PM »
One might think that the flash side-ways were caused by something in the future and they are essentially the end-story and not the on island activity. Basically the end of the story on the Island destroys//sinks the island in the past....

To me the flashsideways are the world as it was before Jacob and MIB travelled back to the egyptian time and Jacob changed the world by manipulating the numbers. MIB now wants to travel back to the egyptian time and beyond, to the point where they started from and that is flashsidewaystimeline 2004. That point will than be the beginning and the end.

This is my take on it too: MIB is just trying to undo all the unnecessary suffering that Jacob caused by bringing people to the island. If MIB succeeds, it doesn't matter he killed Eko, the pilot or all the other people, since those people would just lead their normal lives from then on. MIB is sick of Jacob's experiments and just wants the world to go on without manipulations from godlike puppeteers. He probably wants to love someone, have children and die, he never asked to be a smoke monster (speculating here). All that 'evil incarnate' talk is bulls**t, the way I see it. Jacob just wants to win a game MIB doesn't want to play anymore. Maybe the flash-sideways are our heroes' end stories after MIB sets them free.

Alternately, Jacob may be trying to destroy 'evil' by showing him that not all people are corruptible. After acheiving this with the help of Kate (whom MIB does not recognize as a candidate), Jacob resets the world and the flash-sideways happen. But this ending would suck badly. So I'm hoping for the first theory or something else really surprising.