Author Topic: Jacob Baptizing Richard  (Read 8977 times)

Offline SQUIRT199

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Re: Jacob Baptizing Richard
« Reply #30 on: March 24, 2010, 01:15:14 PM »
I liked Sawyers line last episode

"God has nothing to do with it lady"

Offline Ladybug

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Re: Jacob Baptizing Richard
« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2010, 01:17:17 PM »
i think we just haven't seen richard enough in the past to know if he is religious or not, or about his religious beliefs.  he's always been a background character of sorts who just helps others' stories along.  last night was our first real view of richard as richard.

Ladybug, please tell me this is sarcasm. Please. How can you say we don't know enough to know if he's religious or not?? He was not only reading a bible and praying, but like Folly pointed out, he was teaching him self English by reading the bible, which means he must have, at some point memorized his Spanish bible. On top of that, a Catholic Priest comes to his cell, and Richard asks for absolution and forgiveness. Then, when the priest tells him that he will go to hell because he has no time to make pennance for murder, you can see how upset Richard is. It is plainly obvious that Richard was a die hard Catholic.
By "in the past" I think she meant previous episodes, not 19th century.
that's exactly what i meant.  until LAST NIGHT we didn't really know much about richard's religiousness.  the original statement (made by folly) was that we haven't seen much of richard's religiouness since his arrival on the island.  i think that we, as viewers, just haven't had that side of richard shown to us.

Offline Suzanne4au2

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Re: Jacob Baptizing Richard
« Reply #32 on: March 24, 2010, 01:24:41 PM »
I liked Sawyers line last episode

"God has nothing to do with it lady"

I was thinking about that line last night...lots of devil talk and not much God talk. Perhaps God indeed has nothing to do with it.

Offline BadRobot64

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Re: Jacob Baptizing Richard
« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2010, 01:36:40 PM »
I didn't want to start a new topic so I'll post it here.

Ricardo has been on the island (off the ship) for a day and knows more then all the others combined. He knows how the Black Rock got to the middl eof the jungle, what happened to the statue, where Jacob lives, that MiB is Smokey, what Jacobs role on the island is, Jacob brought him and others before him to the island for a galactic test, why he hasn't aged in 150 years, who was captain of the Black Rock. I am sure there is more this is all I can think of. It took the rest of the islanders 5 seasons to get the knowlege Richard received in 1 day.

well mainly because he was directly connected to all those things, the black rock info and how the stature was broken and was directly told by jacob and mib their stories... it took the 815ers 5 seasons because 1) they werent looking for that info, and B) nobody was there to inform them... duh.

Offline Writers_Strike

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Re: Jacob Baptizing Richard
« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2010, 01:38:01 PM »
I liked Sawyers line last episode

"God has nothing to do with it lady"

I was thinking about that line last night...lots of devil talk and not much God talk. Perhaps God indeed has nothing to do with it.

I guess that depends on what God you are talking about. Jacob and the island have been there long before the Christian God had any revelance in the world. The statue probably predates Jesus by 1,000 years or more. Heck, the giant statue pays homage to an Egyptian God. So before we go on a tangent about Christian symbolism and Baptisims let's not forget about other religions that have been depicted in the show.

Offline IFP

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Re: Jacob Baptizing Richard
« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2010, 02:09:39 PM »
I guess my Atheist mind doesn't think that way, I saw a guy trying to drown another to prove he wasn't dead.

Ahh, a "Jack" amongst us. Why do you find it so hard to believe? :)

Offline grizn0

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Re: Jacob Baptizing Richard
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2010, 02:13:14 PM »
I guess my Atheist mind doesn't think that way, I saw a guy trying to drown another to prove he wasn't dead.

Ahh, a "Jack" amongst us. Why do you find it so hard to believe? :)
Why do you find it so easy? :P

Offline BadRobot64

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Re: Jacob Baptizing Richard
« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2010, 02:14:23 PM »
I guess my Atheist mind doesn't think that way, I saw a guy trying to drown another to prove he wasn't dead.

Ahh, a "Jack" amongst us. Why do you find it so hard to believe? :)
Why do you find it so easy? :P

IT NEVER WAS EASY!

Offline lostfan777

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Re: Jacob Baptizing Richard
« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2010, 03:15:05 PM »
I guess that depends on what God you are talking about. Jacob and the island have been there long before the Christian God had any revelance in the world. The statue probably predates Jesus by 1,000 years or more. Heck, the giant statue pays homage to an Egyptian God. So before we go on a tangent about Christian symbolism and Baptisims let's not forget about other religions that have been depicted in the show.

The 'Christian God' is the God of all creation, not Jesus of 2000 years ago.  Jesus himself was a Jew and 'Rabbi' and so Christians follow both the old testament of the Jews and the new testament of Christ.  Christianity is fairly new in the scheme of things, but the Christian beliefs go back much further than Jesus.

Also, the Egyptian statues and writings, as well as all the other cultural remnants on the island, are there to show us just how long the island has been there and how many cultures have occupied it in the past.  They aren't there because Jacob is from ancient Egypt, or because he is Buddhist or any other religion.  They are just remnants of those who have come and died before.

I also thought it was fitting that you used the wrong word above, 'revelance' instead of 'relevance', because I have been pushing the theory of the end of days from the CHRISTIAN book of REVELATION for years now!    ;D

Offline WhatThe

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Re: Jacob Baptizing Richard
« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2010, 03:17:23 PM »
Ok, so I'm not the only one who saw the baptism symbolism afterall lol :D...Whew.

Offline vickilynn

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Re: Jacob Baptizing Richard
« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2010, 03:40:36 PM »
I guess that depends on what God you are talking about. Jacob and the island have been there long before the Christian God had any revelance in the world. The statue probably predates Jesus by 1,000 years or more. Heck, the giant statue pays homage to an Egyptian God. So before we go on a tangent about Christian symbolism and Baptisims let's not forget about other religions that have been depicted in the show.

The 'Christian God' is the God of all creation, not Jesus of 2000 years ago.  Jesus himself was a Jew and 'Rabbi' and so Christians follow both the old testament of the Jews and the new testament of Christ.  Christianity is fairly new in the scheme of things, but the Christian beliefs go back much further than Jesus.

Also, the Egyptian statues and writings, as well as all the other cultural remnants on the island, are there to show us just how long the island has been there and how many cultures have occupied it in the past.  They aren't there because Jacob is from ancient Egypt, or because he is Buddhist or any other religion.  They are just remnants of those who have come and died before.

I also thought it was fitting that you used the wrong word above, 'revelance' instead of 'relevance', because I have been pushing the theory of the end of days from the CHRISTIAN book of REVELATION for years now!    ;D
There are many gods, goddesses, images humans have set up to worship. Many of the beliefs that the Christians chose to incorporate into their religion have ancient origins.

Offline lostfan777

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Re: Jacob Baptizing Richard
« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2010, 04:01:43 PM »
I guess that depends on what God you are talking about. Jacob and the island have been there long before the Christian God had any revelance in the world. The statue probably predates Jesus by 1,000 years or more. Heck, the giant statue pays homage to an Egyptian God. So before we go on a tangent about Christian symbolism and Baptisims let's not forget about other religions that have been depicted in the show.

The 'Christian God' is the God of all creation, not Jesus of 2000 years ago.  Jesus himself was a Jew and 'Rabbi' and so Christians follow both the old testament of the Jews and the new testament of Christ.  Christianity is fairly new in the scheme of things, but the Christian beliefs go back much further than Jesus.

Also, the Egyptian statues and writings, as well as all the other cultural remnants on the island, are there to show us just how long the island has been there and how many cultures have occupied it in the past.  They aren't there because Jacob is from ancient Egypt, or because he is Buddhist or any other religion.  They are just remnants of those who have come and died before.

I also thought it was fitting that you used the wrong word above, 'revelance' instead of 'relevance', because I have been pushing the theory of the end of days from the CHRISTIAN book of REVELATION for years now!    ;D
There are many gods, goddesses, images humans have set up to worship. Many of the beliefs that the Christians chose to incorporate into their religion have ancient origins.

That was my point, kinda.  I'd say that the old testament of the Jews has the similarities to other beliefs like you said, and the Christian religions have adopted them and just added the 'newer' new testament to cover arrival of Jesus.  Jews and Christians are pretty much the same up until that point, with Jews believing a messiah is yet to come and Christians believing they 'missed the boat'.  I'm no scholar, so I'm not sure what other faiths think of Jesus, but I think at least some of them believe he existed, but was just another prophet.  This is actually how I lean myself, even though I was raised Catholic and now attend a Lutheran Church.

Getting back to the show, my original point was that the 'objects' on the island were left there by people who occupied it over the centuries and, according to Jacob, all died.  They have yet to tell us who Jacob and MIB are and what their origin is, or even what MIB's name is.  Because they haven't named him yet, I think it will be a name people will know and since this is a tv show and not an internet production, I think it will be a name that common viewers will recognize without having to run to their computers to do research.  I'm still voting for a Christian foundation to the story.  It makes the most sense to me.

Offline vickilynn

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Re: Jacob Baptizing Richard
« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2010, 04:06:38 PM »
I think every belief system, every culture, incorporates light and dark (good and bad)....right? I would like to think that these forces are eternal (and they're internal, we all have both potentials) and nameless - existing before names. But I think you're right; since we have Jacob, I bet the MIB name is a christian equivalent.

Offline BobBX542

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Re: Jacob Baptizing Richard
« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2010, 05:15:21 PM »
I guess my Atheist mind doesn't think that way, I saw a guy trying to drown another to prove he wasn't dead.

Don't go around starting too many sentences with, "I guess my Atheist mind doesn't think that way,..." It makes the rest of us look bad.


The rest of us atheists?

Yes.

i think we just haven't seen richard enough in the past to know if he is religious or not, or about his religious beliefs.  he's always been a background character of sorts who just helps others' stories along.  last night was our first real view of richard as richard.

Ladybug, please tell me this is sarcasm. Please. How can you say we don't know enough to know if he's religious or not?? He was not only reading a bible and praying, but like Folly pointed out, he was teaching him self English by reading the bible, which means he must have, at some point memorized his Spanish bible. On top of that, a Catholic Priest comes to his cell, and Richard asks for absolution and forgiveness. Then, when the priest tells him that he will go to hell because he has no time to make pennance for murder, you can see how upset Richard is. It is plainly obvious that Richard was a die hard Catholic.
By "in the past" I think she meant previous episodes, not 19th century.
that's exactly what i meant.  until LAST NIGHT we didn't really know much about richard's religiousness.  the original statement (made by folly) was that we haven't seen much of richard's religiouness since his arrival on the island.  i think that we, as viewers, just haven't had that side of richard shown to us.

Okay, I was really hoping that it was my interpretation of what you wrote, and not ACTUALLY what you wrote, because I have always respected your opinion on here, and if you were saying what I thought you were, I was going to freak out.

Offline Ladybug

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Re: Jacob Baptizing Richard
« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2010, 10:06:17 PM »
I guess my Atheist mind doesn't think that way, I saw a guy trying to drown another to prove he wasn't dead.

Don't go around starting too many sentences with, "I guess my Atheist mind doesn't think that way,..." It makes the rest of us look bad.


The rest of us atheists?

Yes.

i think we just haven't seen richard enough in the past to know if he is religious or not, or about his religious beliefs.  he's always been a background character of sorts who just helps others' stories along.  last night was our first real view of richard as richard.

Ladybug, please tell me this is sarcasm. Please. How can you say we don't know enough to know if he's religious or not?? He was not only reading a bible and praying, but like Folly pointed out, he was teaching him self English by reading the bible, which means he must have, at some point memorized his Spanish bible. On top of that, a Catholic Priest comes to his cell, and Richard asks for absolution and forgiveness. Then, when the priest tells him that he will go to hell because he has no time to make pennance for murder, you can see how upset Richard is. It is plainly obvious that Richard was a die hard Catholic.
By "in the past" I think she meant previous episodes, not 19th century.
that's exactly what i meant.  until LAST NIGHT we didn't really know much about richard's religiousness.  the original statement (made by folly) was that we haven't seen much of richard's religiouness since his arrival on the island.  i think that we, as viewers, just haven't had that side of richard shown to us.

Okay, I was really hoping that it was my interpretation of what you wrote, and not ACTUALLY what you wrote, because I have always respected your opinion on here, and if you were saying what I thought you were, I was going to freak out.
thank you.  i don't always think my thoughts through completely, so sometimes they come of as extremely wacko.  and then again, sometimes i do think them through and they are still wacko.  ie:  no time travel, kelvin is alive, christian is alive, etc. etc.