Author Topic: Flash sideways argument  (Read 2404 times)

Offline Bradislost09

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Flash sideways argument
« on: March 17, 2010, 02:14:37 PM »
So, My cousin and I are in a debate about my little theory here.  What do you all think?  A lot of people are sick of the flash sideways because it seems not to be connected...but maybe it is..

Pre – Original Oceanic 815 crash.

The lives of the Losties have been altered by Jakob.  Jakob has touched each one of them, signifying that they are a candidate.  This sends their lives down a path that can be considered harsh at best.  Lets examine where each person was in their life prior to crashing on the island.

1)    Jack – Returning home from Sydney to bury his dead father.  A father who went to Sydney because Jack had him fired from his job at the hospital.  A father who drank himself to death because he was unable to cope with his inability to be a good father.  One of the lowest points in his life

2)   Hurley – Bad luck after bad luck after bad luck.  Hurley crashed on the island because he was cursed.  As far as he was concerned, his bad luck may be what brought the entire plane down to begin with.  His bad luck had caused a group of people on a balcony to die, a meteor to hit his chicken shack and his brand new house to burn down.

3)   Sawyer – Just finished shooting the man who he believed was his mother’s murderer.  Only to find out that it was all a con.  His life since the death of his mother has been one con after another.  No happiness or feelings of contentment. 

4)   Sun / Jin – Sun is so unhappy in her marriage to Jin that she almost leaves him at the airport before 815 takes off.  She does not like the man Jin has become.  Jin has become an enforcer for Sun’s father.  He does not like the man he has become either. 

5)   Kate – She has been captured in Sydney for the murder of her stepfather.  Her life has been hard to say the least.  Constantly on the run and turned in by her own mother.  Nothing has ever seemed to work out for her. 

6)   Sayid – Has been searching his whole life for the only thing that has ever mattered to him, Naudia.  Has constantly battled with his demons.  Life has not been easy.


My theory in a nutshell:  The flash sideways represents what the people on the island would most desire above anything in the world.  What they would choose if they were given a second chance and that the second chance has been given. 

1)   Hurley – he would choose to be the luckiest man in the world as opposed to the unluckiest.

2)   Jack – He would choose to be a good father.  The exact opposite of how his father treated him

3)   Ben – He would choose to sacrifice anything for the betterment of Alex.  Unlike letting her die on the island.

4)   Sayid – He would choose to have Naudia in his life.  Ideally he would choose to be with her.  In the flash sideways it clearly stated that Sayid had the option to be with Naudia but turned it down and pushed her towards his brother.  Free will is still a factor.  The Smoke monster simply created the option of him being with her.

5)   Kate.  Would choose to have Claire give birth to and raise Aaron.

6)   Sawyer – Would choose for Juliet to be alive and to be with her.  i.e. “it worked” and “we should grab coffee sometime”.  Also, instead of a life of crime, he is a civil servant.  He will not end up killing “Sawyer” but will forgive him or arrest him.   


The end of the “island timeline” will begin the flash sideways timeline.  The smoke monster will make a deal with everyone who joins him that will give them the one thing they have always wanted.  He will make it as if Jakob never had an impact on their lives.  Jakob did what he did in the selfishness of protecting the island.  He did not care whose lives were negatively affected as a result.  The smoke monster will erase all of this. 

Offline lostlady

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Re: Flash sideways argument
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2010, 02:17:35 PM »
I really like this theory. I've been thinking along the same lines myself. It makes alot of sense and is something they can easily develop in the next 8 episodes....

Offline terry700

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Re: Flash sideways argument
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2010, 02:22:47 PM »
But what if Jacob is "bad," since the two realities are 1 - that the island survived, and 2 - the island did not survive (flash sideways world - sunk in 1970's), Jacob touched each of them in the (survived) current world and their lives went down the toilet after he touched them.  But in the world where he didn't touch them, their lives are on a different and arguably better path.

Offline LostinLock

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Re: Flash sideways argument
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2010, 02:30:14 PM »
After last night I am of the strong belief that the sideways are showing what does happen if they were not touched by Jacob.  And no matter what their lives intersected and they were destined to meet up with each other.

They made different choices - Sawyer becomes a cop but still hunts his parents con man - runs into Kate again - partners with miles and has a date with Charlotte- as well as calling down Anthony Cooper - this is where that was proven to me

No deals this is just showing what could have happened

Offline BrianIsLost2

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Re: Flash sideways argument
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2010, 03:02:51 PM »
My only problem with the whole "this is what would have happened had Jacob not touched them" theory is that Hurley was not touched until after he got back from the island.  So if the sideways truly is what would have happened had Jacob not touched them then Hurley's life at this point should be the same as before, right?

Offline solost

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Re: Flash sideways argument
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2010, 03:11:56 PM »
My only problem with the whole "this is what would have happened had Jacob not touched them" theory is that Hurley was not touched until after he got back from the island.  So if the sideways truly is what would have happened had Jacob not touched them then Hurley's life at this point should be the same as before, right?
HMMMMMMMMM.......VERY INTERESTING!!!!

Offline Writers_Strike

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Re: Flash sideways argument
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2010, 03:25:58 PM »
My only problem with the whole "this is what would have happened had Jacob not touched them" theory is that Hurley was not touched until after he got back from the island.  So if the sideways truly is what would have happened had Jacob not touched them then Hurley's life at this point should be the same as before, right?

Jacob was under the balcony with a saw making sure it would collapse, this way Hurley could be exposed to the numbers in the mental hospital and end up on the island.

Offline BobBX542

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Re: Flash sideways argument
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2010, 03:52:12 PM »
My only problem with the whole "this is what would have happened had Jacob not touched them" theory is that Hurley was not touched until after he got back from the island.  So if the sideways truly is what would have happened had Jacob not touched them then Hurley's life at this point should be the same as before, right?

That's been my whole issue, and the only thing I can think of, not that it makes any sense, or really works at all is that it's not the issue of Jacob touching them, it's the issue of the island affecting the world. So, somehow the island has an affect or pull, on the world's inhabitants, and something that will happen in the next few months will show us that the island sinking is actually better for everyone, because Jacob or MIB will have proved his point, and the power the island has will disappear with the island.

Offline Lostatwork

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Re: Flash sideways argument
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2010, 03:57:20 PM »
Isn't the sideways what would have happened if the plane landed and didn't crash on the island?  Not dependent on if Jakob touched them or not?

Offline Bradislost09

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Re: Flash sideways argument
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2010, 04:00:31 PM »
link=topic=10596.msg611659#msg611659 date=1268848971]
My only problem with the whole "this is what would have happened had Jacob not touched them" theory is that Hurley was not touched until after he got back from the island.  So if the sideways truly is what would have happened had Jacob not touched them then Hurley's life at this point should be the same as before, right?
[/quote]
We do not know that this was the only time that Hurley was touched by Jakob.  Jack was shown being touched by Jakob during his first major surgery, but the Lighthouse shows that Jakob has been watching Jack since he was a little kid. 
Quote from: BrianIsLost2

[quote author=Lostatwork link=topic=10596.msg611697#msg611697 date=1268852240
Isn't the sideways what would have happened if the plane landed and didn't crash on the island?  Not dependent on if Jakob touched them or not?

This cannot be the case.  Jack never had a son in the original timeline but he has one in the flash sideways.  He does not magically have a son just because the plane did not crash. 

Offline BobBX542

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Re: Flash sideways argument
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2010, 04:01:01 PM »
Isn't the sideways what would have happened if the plane landed and didn't crash on the island?  Not dependent on if Jakob touched them or not?

Not really, because things are already different for them before they even get on the plane.

Offline cookieshoes

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Re: Flash sideways argument
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2010, 04:03:30 PM »
Good theory.  Remember, the first we ever saw of Jacob and MIB was the conversation where MIB mentions that it "always ends the same", with Jacob saying that "it only ends once".  So, to me that says that the sideways timeline is gonna come back and still produce the same results. No matter what the characters are/were now like.

It all goes back to the course-correction theme. It's all gonna keep happening in a never-ending cycle, regardless of what any set of people try to do. The dharma village is no different than the Egyptian temples, they're relics left from a past "cast" of people, who were all used by Jacob/MIB to be played in the same game. Hence the list of the names of "candidates" getting crossed off in the cave. So, the Black Rock is no different than the hot air balloon, the drug plane, Oceanic 815, Ajira flight, etc.  Some rounds of play are more successful than others,  but it can all only end the same way.  We've yet to see what that "ending" is. But it suggests to me that the series finale will be the whole thing starting over in one way or another. Jacob and the MIB back on the beach talking about the next round of play.  Whether the "faces" of Jacob/MIB are replaced by Ben/Widmore, Jack/Sawyer, or any other pair of "opposites" currently on the island remains to be seen.

Offline beanblog

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Re: Flash sideways argument
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2010, 04:03:55 PM »
The end of the “island timeline” will begin the flash sideways timeline.  The smoke monster will make a deal with everyone who joins him that will give them the one thing they have always wanted.  He will make it as if Jakob never had an impact on their lives.  Jakob did what he did in the selfishness of protecting the island.  He did not care whose lives were negatively affected as a result.  The smoke monster will erase all of this. 
This is the most ridiculous theory I have ever heard...
kidding... I am the cousin with which the poster is arguing.


Isn't the sideways what would have happened if the plane landed and didn't crash on the island?  Not dependent on if Jakob touched them or not?
Yes - but there are plenty of other things that are different... even way before the plane crashes or doesn't.  For instance, the island is under water, jack has a kid, and on and on.  The "divergence" of the timelines happened back in the 70's when Juliet detonated the nuke.


At any rate - as much as I like the thought that we are getting 2 seasons in one (end of this season is the beginning of the flash sideways)... I just cant see it happening.  How do they reconcile the death of charlie (who is aparently still alive sideways).  Is it just all about "wishes" being granted, so theer are no rules?  

Offline Bradislost09

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Re: Flash sideways argument
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2010, 04:09:07 PM »
Bean,

The idea above looks pretty similar to your theory. 

Offline Bradislost09

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Re: Flash sideways argument
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2010, 04:13:31 PM »
Good theory.  Remember, the first we ever saw of Jacob and MIB was the conversation where MIB mentions that it "always ends the same", with Jacob saying that "it only ends once".  So, to me that says that the sideways timeline is gonna come back and still produce the same results. No matter what the characters are/were now like.

It all goes back to the course-correction theme. It's all gonna keep happening in a never-ending cycle, regardless of what any set of people try to do. The dharma village is no different than the Egyptian temples, they're relics left from a past "cast" of people, who were all used by Jacob/MIB to be played in the same game. Hence the list of the names of "candidates" getting crossed off in the cave. So, the Black Rock is no different than the hot air balloon, the drug plane, Oceanic 815, Ajira flight, etc.  Some rounds of play are more successful than others,  but it can all only end the same way.  We've yet to see what that "ending" is. But it suggests to me that the series finale will be the whole thing starting over in one way or another. Jacob and the MIB back on the beach talking about the next round of play.  Whether the "faces" of Jacob/MIB are replaced by Ben/Widmore, Jack/Sawyer, or any other pair of "opposites" currently on the island remains to be seen.

This is kind of what my cousin is arguing.  I understand your point, and you may be right but... The conversation you elude to..MIB says "they come, they fight, it always ends the same".  Jakob "It only ends one, until then, it is all progress".  This leads me to believe that Jakob believes another ending is possible while the MIB does not.  If everything ends the same, then why even try?  I guess this would pose a problem for my theory ebing that the flash sideways is a result of a deal with MIB.  Maybe it is caused by Jakob instead.