Author Topic: Damn, Richard!  (Read 10858 times)

Offline Numbers Junkie

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Re: Damn, Richard!
« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2010, 07:21:01 PM »
MIB could have kept Richard in the chains we saw last night, but it could have been after the Black Rock was already marooned on the island, if you get what I mean.

possible...

...and btw, It did cross my mind as to how he just shows up all the time and disappears into the background.
similar to smokey perhaps? white smoke? lol!
he did say to Hurley when he asked, that it's complicated, so maybe there is more to Ricardo than being immortal.

Offline nomteticus

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Re: Damn, Richard!
« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2010, 07:28:36 PM »
I don't think Richard was enslaved by MIB. By the way MIB was talking, it seemed like he  offered him a deal, but he chose Jacob instead.

Offline Rebel 3:16

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Re: Damn, Richard!
« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2010, 08:03:36 PM »
I am totally into the theory that Richard was a slave (in chains) on the Black Rock and was freed and given a gift by Jacob, but what I dont buy into is why the hell he suddenly starts taking orders from young Ben?
After all, he says he has been there longer than we can imagine, Ben meanwhile in contrast has been there 2 minutes, so is this purely upon Jacobs orders? If so, I am not surprised he is pissed with big J!

So what do we know? Before Ben was shot by Sayid Widmore and Hawkins were running the camp, Richard was basically a go between for Widmore and even got a rollocking of CW for taking Ben to the temple to be healed, so was Dogen Charles' replacement on the Island? Or was it Ben?

Sheesh this get more confusing the more I think about it!


Offline Numbers Junkie

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Re: Damn, Richard!
« Reply #33 on: March 10, 2010, 08:18:32 PM »
I am totally into the theory that Richard was a slave (in chains) on the Black Rock and was freed and given a gift by Jacob, but what I dont buy into is why the hell he suddenly starts taking orders from young Ben?
After all, he says he has been there longer than we can imagine, Ben meanwhile in contrast has been there 2 minutes, so is this purely upon Jacobs orders? If so, I am not surprised he is pissed with big J!

So what do we know? Before Ben was shot by Sayid Widmore and Hawkins were running the camp, Richard was basically a go between for Widmore and even got a rollocking of CW for taking Ben to the temple to be healed, so was Dogen Charles' replacement on the Island? Or was it Ben?

Sheesh this get more confusing the more I think about it!






Widmore was banished (by Jacob through Ben) for having a child off island (Penny!) and he has been trying to get back ever since.
I guess we saw his return at the end of last nights episode, but he did not stop at the beach he kept going....to the statue maybe? to find Jacob maybe? to take revenge maybe? Where is Eloise? Is she going to get Dez back to the island somehow to save the day?!

And all in all, Richard doesn't really take orders from anyone other than Jacob, he is just following Jack's lead b/c he is in the know right now, but unless Jack becomes the new Jacob, Richard is really keeping his cards close to his chest.

Btw, Richard, slave on the Black Rock, he related to the chains and he was willing to die where it all began, but I guess we'll see in 2 weeks...
...Can't wait for Ab Aeterno!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline thebeann

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Re: Damn, Richard!
« Reply #34 on: March 10, 2010, 08:59:22 PM »
I am totally into the theory that Richard was a slave (in chains) on the Black Rock and was freed and given a gift by Jacob, but what I dont buy into is why the hell he suddenly starts taking orders from young Ben?
After all, he says he has been there longer than we can imagine, Ben meanwhile in contrast has been there 2 minutes, so is this purely upon Jacobs orders? If so, I am not surprised he is pissed with big J!

So what do we know? Before Ben was shot by Sayid Widmore and Hawkins were running the camp, Richard was basically a go between for Widmore and even got a rollocking of CW for taking Ben to the temple to be healed, so was Dogen Charles' replacement on the Island? Or was it Ben?

Sheesh this get more confusing the more I think about it!



See, I originally hought Richard latched onto Ben because he (Ben) could see ghosts. At that time in the series, it was sort of implied that "Jacob" (or whoever was in the shack) was a ghost (Ben talking to empty chair, but then "Help me" and the flash of an image). Richard seemed to take an interest in Ben when he heard that Ben saw his dead mother. So I thought maybe they needed someone to communicate with this "ghost" and here comes Ben. But now we know that Jacob was in fact a real person who could be killed, not a ghost so it doesn't add up (but nor does the whole "shack" thing....if that was really Jacob, why did he say "help me?" He appeared to be freely moving about the island and off, so that whole thing doesn't make sense...).

I am at a loss as to how Ben rose to power, unless Jacob had something to do with it.

Offline LostinLock

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Re: Damn, Richard!
« Reply #35 on: March 10, 2010, 10:13:41 PM »
Does this mean Richard is definitely from the Black Rock? He said he hadn't been back to see the ship his whole time on the island, and he looked at the chains which makes us think of MIB telling him something about last seeing him in chains. The thing is, I thought Richard was from further back in time. He does tell Jack that he has been "alive" longer than he could ever imagine.

he could be from ancient greece or ancient rome and still have been a prisoner on the black rock,
maybe put there by MIB himself

I was thinking that too.  I always thought he looked 'Egyptian' with the (they say it's natural!) guyliner, so I've been hoping for an ancient Egypt tie-in to go with the hatch symbols and all the writings and stuff.  When people started to theorize that he was from the Black Rock I thought that would be a disappointment, not far back enough to be overly impressive.  So the only way we can all be right is if he is from way way back (ancient Egypt) but got caught up as a slave on the Black Rock for awhile.  I wonder if they travelled off the island all the way back that far.  The only thing that tells me this is wrong is that in the first beach scene with Jacob and MIB, with the Black Rock offshore, it seemed like we were meant to feel as if they had been alone on the island for awhile.  Jacob was drawing 'new' people to the island, as MIB said, to try to 'prove him wrong' again and that it 'always ends the same'.  I guess there could have been followers there with him already, but it just didn't seem that way to me.

Guys, this is just one more of those things that I have been talking about that you can't look too deeply into with this season. They aren't making it too difficult for us here. When Locke said to Richard that he was "glad to see him out of those chains", they weren't talking metaphorically. BUT, for the people that were still on the fence, they show us this episode with Richard, standing in the Black Rock, looking at the manicles/shackles/CHAINS, and he says that he came her on the ship, and hasn't been back since. I really don't think TPTB can make it any more clear.

BUT, obviously there is a really good chance I'm wrong. We will all find out in 2 weeks when we get the Richard episode. I really would like to give you, and everyone else, a little piece of advice though. This kind of over thinking is the stuff that is going to make the series finale feel unfulfilling. Once you start imagining all this stuff weaved into the bare facts they have given us, you make it way more built up then it has to be. And because it's all your own creation, it will never be addressed, and then you will be pissed. Trust me, I've done it to myself a million times.

Bob thanks for saving me the time and effort in posting wa that you in my dreams pulling my thoughts with you wand?

Offline BobBX542

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Re: Damn, Richard!
« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2010, 11:32:08 AM »
Bob thanks for saving me the time and effort in posting wa that you in my dreams pulling my thoughts with you wand?

Well, I'm just stating things the way I see them, everyone is free to think whatever they want.

Offline opgelost

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Re: Damn, Richard!
« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2010, 02:25:05 PM »
But where did he appear from?

Offline BobBX542

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Re: Damn, Richard!
« Reply #38 on: March 11, 2010, 03:38:43 PM »
But where did he appear from?

Huh??

Offline opgelost

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Re: Damn, Richard!
« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2010, 03:55:36 PM »
RICHARD: You're both wrong.

[Jack and Hurley look up at Richard, who has just emerged from the jungle]

RICHARD: The Temple's that way.

JACK: Where did you come from?

RICHARD: You wouldn't believe me if I told you.

JACK: Try me.

RICHARD: Not yet. But if you wanna go to the Temple, it's this way.

Offline BobBX542

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Re: Damn, Richard!
« Reply #40 on: March 11, 2010, 03:58:51 PM »
RICHARD: You're both wrong.

[Jack and Hurley look up at Richard, who has just emerged from the jungle]

RICHARD: The Temple's that way.

JACK: Where did you come from?

RICHARD: You wouldn't believe me if I told you.

JACK: Try me.

RICHARD: Not yet. But if you wanna go to the Temple, it's this way.

Oh, well he told us, he was coming back from the temple. You mean how did he just show up in the jungle right where Jack and Hurley were?? Well hell, that's been happening for 6 years with all of the characters. You can't start nit picking that now. LOL

Offline opgelost

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Re: Damn, Richard!
« Reply #41 on: March 11, 2010, 04:03:04 PM »
But he is almost going to tell it.
Not yet, but almost.
Hurley asked if he was timetravelling and he said no.

Offline BobBX542

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Re: Damn, Richard!
« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2010, 04:16:01 PM »
Oh, I see what you're saying there, well, I guess you could kind of take what he said a few different ways. Like, maybe he was kind of saying it as a smart a$$ remark as if to say, "If I told you I came from a pirate ship, you wouldn't believe me." OR he was thinking that if he told them he just came from the temple and everyone was dead, they wouldn't believe him. It could be interpreted a few ways, but I think you shouldn't over think it.

The last time we saw him, he was talking to Sawyer and then he took off running through the jungle, presumably towards the temple. Then the next time we see him, he is running through the jungle. I don't think he like time traveled, or went through an alternate reality or anything like that. Just do what I have been doing this season, and accept what they tell you/show you. You will be able to enjoy it so much more.

Offline lostfan777

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Re: Damn, Richard!
« Reply #43 on: March 11, 2010, 04:40:45 PM »
I think his answer (you wouldn't believe me) was the writers' way of stalling, moving the scene without having to give us any answers just yet.  If Jack hadn't asked, we'd be screaming 'Why wasn't Jack curious about where this guy popped up from?'  So he asked and got sidestepped for the moment.

As to whether Richard can also become a 'smoke entity', I think if he could, he would have used that to avoid or get away from MIB and he certainly wouldn't have been trapped in that tarp for too long!

Offline Sweet Old Lady

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Re: Damn, Richard!
« Reply #44 on: March 11, 2010, 04:42:59 PM »
I am totally into the theory that Richard was a slave (in chains) on the Black Rock and was freed and given a gift by Jacob, but what I dont buy into is why the hell he suddenly starts taking orders from young Ben?
After all, he says he has been there longer than we can imagine, Ben meanwhile in contrast has been there 2 minutes, so is this purely upon Jacobs orders? If so, I am not surprised he is pissed with big J!

So what do we know? Before Ben was shot by Sayid Widmore and Hawkins were running the camp, Richard was basically a go between for Widmore and even got a rollocking of CW for taking Ben to the temple to be healed, so was Dogen Charles' replacement on the Island? Or was it Ben?

Sheesh this get more confusing the more I think about it!



See, I originally hought Richard latched onto Ben because he (Ben) could see ghosts. At that time in the series, it was sort of implied that "Jacob" (or whoever was in the shack) was a ghost (Ben talking to empty chair, but then "Help me" and the flash of an image). Richard seemed to take an interest in Ben when he heard that Ben saw his dead mother. So I thought maybe they needed someone to communicate with this "ghost" and here comes Ben. But now we know that Jacob was in fact a real person who could be killed, not a ghost so it doesn't add up (but nor does the whole "shack" thing....if that was really Jacob, why did he say "help me?" He appeared to be freely moving about the island and off, so that whole thing doesn't make sense...).

I am at a loss as to how Ben rose to power, unless Jacob had something to do with it.
I think that Richard and his people were waiting for a prophecy to be fulfilled.  They seem to be expecting a leader/savior who recovered from an apparently mortal wound, who can comminucate with the dead, and who killed his own father.  The Purge may have been engineered by Richard et al to force a fulfillment of prophecy or to test Ben's fitness to be the leader/savior.  When Ben tried to get Locke to kill Cooper it might have been a test to see if Locke is The One.  That explains Ben's announcement to the Others that "He isn't who we thought he is" when Locke initially refused to kill Cooper.  Several of the candidates fall into at least one of those catagories.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2010, 04:46:52 PM by Sweet Old Lady »