Author Topic: Jacob- good or bad...or god?  (Read 2481 times)

Offline imcrazy0088

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Jacob- good or bad...or god?
« on: March 10, 2010, 12:06:43 AM »
so far ive been betting that jacob was actually bad despite his deceptive appearance. this means either MIB is good? or more likely that they both suck and the losties need to get the f away from that island. anyway, my friend has some crackpot theory about jacob being a christ figure and i discredited it until tonights episode- because of richard. richard's thoughts about jacob could mean that jacob is just a bad guy, but it does fit in reallly well that richard is confused with who he thought was his savior much like christ, but he was killed just like christ, and he was betrayed (by ben) just like christ. meanwhile ben,richard, jack (previously locke) are trying to understand their supposedly special purpose. . . it's interesting

Offline RM

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Re: Jacob- good or bad...or god?
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2010, 02:01:03 PM »
Yeah, I'm back to Jacob being (mostly) good and MIB being (entirely) bad.  Jacob isn't entirely good in my book because seemingly allowing "unimportant" people to be killed.  The strain of accepting Jacob's gift is more about the character of the people receiving it than Jacob "taking advantage" of people in their weakest moments.  Not even Jacob seems to be able to completely control the details of how things play out; he can only adjust the big picture by moving these human "pieces" towards choosing to enact his strategic plan.

MIB seems to just be telling each person whatever they want to hear just for his own purpose.  He told Claire the Others took her baby (a complete lie); he told Sawyer it's just an island and doesn't need protecting yet he just told Ben someone needs to stay behind and be in charge of the Island -- (both can't be true).  He told Sayid he could have everything he ever wanted (doubtful).

Offline MachThree

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Re: Jacob- good or bad...or god?
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2010, 02:46:04 PM »
To further back up Jacob as a Christ-like figure, Doc Jensen suggested in one of his columns, and I think it makes sense, that Dogen may have known he'd be killed by Sayid, so just as Jacob waited patiently for Ben, Dogen waited patiently for Sayid to come and kill him, just as Christ waited in Gethasamene.

Offline razzle-dazzle

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Re: Jacob- good or bad...or god?
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2010, 05:29:57 PM »
Is Faith bad or good? Is Science good/bad?
Is Freewill good/bad is Fate good/bad?

Is Jacob good/bad is MIB good/bad?

I think shades of gray for all the above.

Offline imcrazy0088

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Re: Jacob- good or bad...or god?
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2010, 07:01:03 PM »
Is Faith bad or good? Is Science good/bad?
Is Freewill good/bad is Fate good/bad?

Is Jacob good/bad is MIB good/bad?

I think shades of gray for all the above.
nice

Offline Rebel 3:16

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Re: Jacob- good or bad...or god?
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2010, 07:16:59 PM »
Is Faith bad or good? Is Science good/bad?
Is Freewill good/bad is Fate good/bad?

Is Jacob good/bad is MIB good/bad?


More than any of these questions i want to know.... Is Charles Widmore (Wallace?) Bad or Good?

Im still betting Good :)


Offline LostinLock

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Re: Jacob- good or bad...or god?
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2010, 09:39:30 PM »
Jacob is not god.

He is both , as Dogen said we have both in us and some lean to one more than the other.


Offline imcrazy0088

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Re: Jacob- good or bad...or god?
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2010, 09:30:44 PM »
okay the god title was just a catchy way of bringing up the OBVIOUS religious references in this episode especially
richard's speech

JACK: Why do you want to die?

RICHARD: I devoted my life, longer than you can possibly imagine, in service of a man who told me that everything was happening for a reason, that he had a plan, plan that I was a part of, and when the time was right that he'd share it with me, and now that man's gone so... why do I want to die? Because I just found out my entire life had no purpose. Now if I light this myself it won't work, but you can light it for me Jack.

and linus

BEN: I watched my daughter Alex die in front of me. And it was my fault. I had a chance to save her. But I chose the island over her. All in the name of Jacob. I sacrificed everything for him. And he didn't even care.

clear overtones of questioning faith, purpose. . . i think this topics well worth looking into

Offline LostinLock

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Re: Jacob- good or bad...or god?
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2010, 09:13:11 AM »
okay the god title was just a catchy way of bringing up the OBVIOUS religious references in this episode especially
richard's speech

JACK: Why do you want to die?

RICHARD: I devoted my life, longer than you can possibly imagine, in service of a man who told me that everything was happening for a reason, that he had a plan, plan that I was a part of, and when the time was right that he'd share it with me, and now that man's gone so... why do I want to die? Because I just found out my entire life had no purpose. Now if I light this myself it won't work, but you can light it for me Jack.

and linus

BEN: I watched my daughter Alex die in front of me. And it was my fault. I had a chance to save her. But I chose the island over her. All in the name of Jacob. I sacrificed everything for him. And he didn't even care.

clear overtones of questioning faith, purpose. . . i think this topics well worth looking into

I guess maybe it is me but the overwhelming religious references are just well old.  I can see, hear and have myself subscribed to some of this. 
these lines resonated in my recalling the episode. 

Yes, their faith in this man Jacob (not a god in my book) have been forsaken.  (I do not see anyone worshiping Jacob, but following him, and until we see further into room 23
I can't see their were holding services to praise this man, but following.  Yes, yes, folks followed Jesus, but this is not the same.)   

But many peoples faith/trust/hopes are dashed after giving service to causes/people/companies.  They give years of service, to be moved up the corporate ladder over
the years, to be promised a good pension at the end and when it comes, they find out that their pensions have been absconded by a trusted member of the board or whatever.
Or better yet they get fired with so many months before being fully vested and they get two weeks instead of the full benefit. 


Or wife/husband after years of being married and devoted to the relationship find out that the other person had led them down a path of betrayal.
Or you decide to climb a mountain and go with a guide, you have trusted this guide and he brings you to a precipice and there is no where to go!

None of this is based on religious reference but basic human trust in something WE WANT TO BELIEVE.


These lines resonated  because these two characters feel betrayed by their following Jacobs orders all of these years. 
They made their choices based on what Jacob promised. And in the "end" what he promised is not there.  Their hopes are dashed their faith in this man
are thrown to the wayside.  BUT these speeches are rather funny because they both are throwing in the towel and saying that it wasn't worth it!

In the case of Ben I have great difficulty into buying into his sincerity.  His arrogance that led to her death, not his devotion to the island.  We have to
recall he told Widmore that he changed the rules (I don't recall Jacobs name mentioned here). It was a man to man fight over possesion of the island.

As for Richard, well this was an interesting turn of events. 

But I hope you can get my point, not trying to be argumentative with anyone just looking at this with a different view.