Author Topic: MIB  (Read 2838 times)

Offline CaseyMac

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Re: MIB
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2010, 02:26:47 AM »
You have to admit though that Richard healing Locke at the Beechcraft had occurred before Locke left.  The fact that the incident still exists when Locke returns as UnLocke and he INSERTS his motivation into the scene plays into my theory that any person or event is available to be leveraged by either Jacob or MIB.  Richard was not motivated by MIB to tell Locke he had to die when he said it back in Because You Left http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Because_You_LeftI honestly don't believe that this first time was motivated by MIB.  I think it was motivated by Richard's allegiance to Jacob.  MIB's loophole is that he overtook the greatest of Jacob's faithful - Locke.  So when he inhabits Locke's dead body he has the island, its events and people there for him to overtake.  The scene was just a scene waiting for a motivation - just like all the people.

I agree and disagree with you here, but I may just be misunderstanding.

When we saw the event at the Beechcraft in "Before You Left" it was from the point of view of Time-Traveling Locke. When we see it in "Follow the Leader" we see it from the point of view of Richard. However, it was exactly the same event both times and both times MIB told Richard what to say. Remember the conversation they had:
John: "How did you know I would be here?"
Richard: "You told me."
John: "No. No I didn't."
Richard: "Well not yet."

Richard thought that MIB (like the rest of us) was John Locke, so MIB orchistrated the whole plan so that John Locke would come back to the Island dead, hence MIB would then be able to fool everybody into thinking he was Locke.

I mean really, the whole John Locke being the Leader was a self-fulfilling prophecy. Locke flashes to the 1950's, tells Richard he is their Leader. Richard checks up on Locke a couple times as he is growing up (birth, the childhood test), but nothing really stands out about him as being special. Then when Locke finally gets to the Island in 2004, he suddenly can walk again which makes the Others pretty excited that he is special. So, when Ben leaves, Locke becomes the Leader, then flashes back in time to 1950's to tell Richard he is their Leader. It's a loop much like the compass that My Sideways Self mentioned that Richard gave to Locke in 2007, then Locke gives to Richard when he flashes back to the 1950's then back again.

So, even though MIB orchistrated this whole turn of events (even making sure Richard brought the compass to the Beechcraft), the question still remains, what was Jacob's role? Personally, to me it seems he didn't actively do anything, so if anything he just let it play out. Kinda like how he probably could have talked Ben out of killing him, but seemed to just let it happen.

So, yes, for time-traveling Locke, it happened before he left, but the event always occured in 2007, and MIB was behind the whole thing to make sure Locke would come back dead.

Offline laklost

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Re: MIB
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2010, 02:17:24 PM »
That explanation is really hard to argue with. 

However, I still wonder why Richard would aid MIB when now he is running for his life from him?  That piece undoes your explanation of the Beechcraft scene for me.  Plus I think that MIB is scavenging the island, its inhabitants and its events.  So maybe what we are not seeing the same way is a general read on the scene. 

Offline zeekloveslost

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Re: MIB
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2010, 05:27:34 PM »
Laklost, I think CaseyMac is saying that Richard really thought Locke was Locke (like we did as viewers at that moment). Richard didn't know he was helping the MIB.

Offline CaseyMac

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Re: MIB
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2010, 07:16:22 PM »
^ What she said.

Richard, Ben, the Others, Sun, we the audience all thought MIB was really John Locke at the time.

Only Illana's crew, and Lapidus knew the truth, but they didn't meet up with Richard et al. until it was too late.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2010, 07:19:58 PM by CaseyMac »

Offline LostinLock

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Re: MIB
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2010, 08:47:34 PM »
I never said Jacob's touch didn't influence them.  He influenced them, he didn't manipulate them.  He is all about the island - and I think he thinks that they are needed completely there - for reasons unknown to us completely but hinted at in Richard and Widmore and Ben's devotion to the island. 

Secondly, the idea that MIB quoted John's last thoughts continues to prove that he leverages the dead.  John's last memore was gathered the same way MIB gathered Yemi and Alex info.  If Miles can tell what a dead person was thinking without being with them, I would certainly attribute that quality to MIB.

I don't see how my opinion of Ben fizzled when he was the one who killed Jacob.  I would consider that the epitome of evil.

This conversation is about whether or not MIB set up the play of Locke dying.  I say no.  Casey says yes.  I see him leveraging the fact of needing sacrifice.  Jacob called for John's sacrifice the same way he called for his own.  MIB intercepted the sacrifice.

I think he did interfere with Locke  and Ben was manipulated by MIB