Author Topic: MIB  (Read 2215 times)

Offline Lady Penelope

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MIB
« on: March 07, 2010, 07:15:47 PM »
Temple guy (can't remember his name) told Sayid that the MIB will come to him as someone that he knows and someone who has died.
Does this now mean that MIB was all the people on the island that shouldn't have been there?

Christian  - Jack saw his father and chased him around the island.
Boone - Locke chased him around the island after he had died.
Christian - Claire went off with him and was seen in the cabin.
Yemi - Eko saw him and was eventually killed by him/smokie/MIB.
Hurley has seen loads of dead people!!!
There have probably been others.....

The other question is were these people being led away by MIB to their deaths as they were candidates for Jacob. Eliminate the candidates and eventually get rid of Jacob and MIB can rain free?

What do you think?




Offline BadRobot64

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Re: MIB
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2010, 08:15:30 PM »
i think it was Dogen's way to tell him that LOCKE was the one that will come to him... also i think before on this site ( isee your new so its okay you didnt read the posts) it has been decided that Christian, Yemi, Kate's black horse have been the forms taken by Smokey... also i think which is debateable that DAVE ... Hugo's imaginary friend... was a smokey form, OR just someone that hurley saw.. which he has that ability.

Offline LostinLock

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Re: MIB
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2010, 08:49:35 PM »
Dogen explained also to Sayid that because MIB killed Jacob he could be free.
And as BR has shared there is much speculation that MIB has been using other "dead" peoples images to his benefit.  It adds up to looking like he was those other folks.

Offline laklost

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Re: MIB
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2010, 11:32:10 PM »
I think Christian is not MIB's man.  Ben's interference cannot be discounted.  Christian did not send Locke to the mainland to be killed.  Ben killed him - MIB took advantage of what was supposed to have been Jacob's play on keeping the O6 on the island.

Offline CaseyMac

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Re: MIB
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2010, 11:45:05 PM »
I think Christian is not MIB's man.  Ben's interference cannot be discounted.  Christian did not send Locke to the mainland to be killed.

I'm not so sure about that. Remember when UnLocke went with Richard and Ben to fix Real Locke's gun wound at Yemi's plane while he was time flashing? UnLocke told Richard to tell Real Locke that he has to bring everyone back to the Island, and when he asks how, Richard was supposed to tell him that he has to die. With the real Locke being dead, it allowed UnLocke to trick everyone and get access to Jacob.

Plus, Claire is on UnLocke's side and she said she's been with her dad too. So, if it really is Christian, then it appears he is in the Smoking Club.

Offline laklost

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Re: MIB
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2010, 11:55:53 PM »
UnLocke didn't appear until Locke's body in the coffin came back to the island.  I am lost as to what you mean that UnLocke came with Richard to real Locke.  Richard told Locke he had to bring everyone back - even if it meant by him dying.  Locke left the island to bring everyone back and died there when Ben killed him.  I think the twist in the story is that Ben killed him.  Ben has been serving Jacob using the MIB's means - thereby making possible the furthering of MIB's plan.  Jacob wants the O6 with him to fight the MIB.  Locke was intercepted by the MIB.  I still think Jacob has an ace in the hole with Jack, Christian, and Christian's shoes on Locke. 

I also think that the reason Christian was shown in the smoking club (brilliant name) is because whoever is dead can be leveraged by either side.  I honestly believe that Christian was speaking for Jacob when he told Locke to move the island and to return to the mainland.  The wheel turn was to save the island from the freighter people - that was Jacob's motivation as island guardian.  Locke was sent back by way of the wheel turn to get the O6 because Jacob has designs on all of them.  I think we have seen with Locke, Sayid and Claire what happens when MIB gets his way.  And I think he gets his way by means of the Faustian dilemma - to exchange to them the world they want for their soul.  I think Ben has entered into this pact inadvertently - by means of his skewed sense of morality.  His megalomania was the perfect weapon to use to kill Locke and Jacob both.  I think Christian has avoided this pact - but his dead body was leverage-able by MIB.


Or I'm completely wrong.

Offline CaseyMac

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Re: MIB
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2010, 01:00:45 AM »
Season 5, Episode 15: "Follow the Leader" http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Follow_the_Leader

At the beechcraft, MIB (who everyone still thought was Locke) tells Richard that there will be a man (Real time-traveling Locke) and Richard is to treat his wound with a first aid kit. MIB also tells Richard that he needs to tell the man that he needs to bring everyone back to the Island, and to do that he's going to have to die.

So, quite literally, MIB tells Locke to go off the Island to bring everyone back, and die in the process. Locke was about to commit suicide before Ben kills him anyways.

As for the Smoking Club, I wish I could take credit for that line, but I got it from muppet Dr. Chang on Lost Untangled. Hilarious stuff that I suggest everyone to check out on abc.com
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 01:05:41 AM by CaseyMac »

Offline laklost

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Re: MIB
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2010, 04:01:21 PM »
I'm sorry, I still don't follow at all the idea that Locke was inhabited by MIB until he died off island - which was after the incident at the Beechcraft.  I feel that the story has been very clear about when the man became the monster.

Offline CaseyMac

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Re: MIB
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2010, 04:09:50 PM »
Thats why I gave you the Lostpedia link to the episode where it happens to refresh your memory.

In a nutshell, while Real Locke was flashing through time, he gets shot by Ethan, flashes into the future where MIB Richard and Ben see him, Richard tells him that he needs to bring everyone back and die doing it per MIB's instructions, then Real Locke flashes away again to continue his time travelling journey.

Season 5, Episode 15: "Follow the Leader"

Offline BurkRoyer

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Re: MIB
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2010, 05:49:32 PM »
Thats why I gave you the Lostpedia link to the episode where it happens to refresh your memory.

In a nutshell, while Real Locke was flashing through time, he gets shot by Ethan, flashes into the future where MIB Richard and Ben see him, Richard tells him that he needs to bring everyone back and die doing it per MIB's instructions, then Real Locke flashes away again to continue his time travelling journey.

Season 5, Episode 15: "Follow the Leader"

Which was a great moment in Lost history, in my opinion!  It's the Infinite-loop-no-origin-watch moment.  It's a moment that meant one thing when you first watched it, but became something total different when you realized that that was the MIB, and not the real Locke, telling the real Locke (thru Richard) that he would have to die!

Offline laklost

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Re: MIB
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2010, 07:45:07 PM »
I'm sorry, Casey Mac.  I have to admit I didn't watch the link because I was thinking I knew Richard's motivation.  But you are absolutely right.  I had forgotten UnLocke's instruction to Richard.

You have to admit though that Richard healing Locke at the Beechcraft had occurred before Locke left.  The fact that the incident still exists when Locke returns as UnLocke and he INSERTS his motivation into the scene plays into my theory that any person or event is available to be leveraged by either Jacob or MIB.  Richard was not motivated by MIB to tell Locke he had to die when he said it back in Because You Left http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Because_You_Left.  I honestly don't believe that this first time was motivated by MIB.  I think it was motivated by Richard's allegiance to Jacob.  MIB's loophole is that he overtook the greatest of Jacob's faithful - Locke.  So when he inhabits Locke's dead body he has the island, its events and people there for him to overtake.  The scene was just a scene waiting for a motivation - just like all the people.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 09:45:26 PM by Laklost »

Offline LostinLock

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Re: MIB
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2010, 08:01:35 PM »
So are we saying that MIB never used Christian?  Because I am convinced MIB was in the cabin as Christian when Locke went it in.  then he tells them that they have to move the island and Ben has to be the hero to move the island.  i don't think that was Jacob.  That was MIB and he knew what Ben would do.  He counted on that.  And then when they came back he got Ben to go to the temple to be Alex to tell him not to kill him again.  Which was pretty ingenious of him cause if he did before he could have Jacob knocked off his plan would fail.


Offline laklost

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Re: MIB
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2010, 08:28:09 PM »
I'm the one who thinks MIB has used but has not overtaken Christian (I'm presently sharing this theory with Jeff Jensen).  I think the island had to be moved per Jacob's orders.  I have to jump off from your post, LiL because I do not subscribe to the idea that the larger characters (Jacob and MIB) are pulling all the strings.  My read on the Jeremy Bentham story is that Locke went to the mainland motivated by allegiance to the island and his friends (which would correspond to Jacob's wishes but was not because Jacob was manipulating him) - then Ben killed him - Jack transported him back to the island - then MIB intercepted him.  That's my take.

Offline LostinLock

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Re: MIB
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2010, 08:40:25 PM »
I'm the one who thinks MIB has used but has not overtaken Christian (I'm presently sharing this theory with Jeff Jensen). Correct I agreed with that.  Ilana said he was not stuck in Locke's Body until after Jacobs death

 I think the island had to be moved per Jacob's orders.  That is what Christian said but if MIB was in his body no one is sure that it was Jacob's ordersI have to jump off from your post, LiL because I do not subscribe to the idea that the larger characters (Jacob and MIB) are pulling all the strings. 

Then who is?  I know the island is still a possible character we forget, but why would there be dialogue about Jacob touching them influencing their life choices? My read on the Jeremy Bentham story is that Locke went to the mainland motivated by allegiance to the island and his friends (which would correspond to Jacob's wishes but was not because Jacob was manipulating him) - then Ben killed him - Jack transported him back to the island - then MIB intercepted him.  That's my take.
Well, if Jacob's touch doesn't influence them, then why are they there? Also MIB told Ben what John was thinking when he died.  Why would he say that if he had been intercepted on the island.

I don't know Lakie you were all on Ben last year and that fizzled out!   ??? :-\  I think we are seeing things from different rooms again  ;)



Offline laklost

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Re: MIB
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2010, 09:39:52 PM »
I never said Jacob's touch didn't influence them.  He influenced them, he didn't manipulate them.  He is all about the island - and I think he thinks that they are needed completely there - for reasons unknown to us completely but hinted at in Richard and Widmore and Ben's devotion to the island. 

Secondly, the idea that MIB quoted John's last thoughts continues to prove that he leverages the dead.  John's last memore was gathered the same way MIB gathered Yemi and Alex info.  If Miles can tell what a dead person was thinking without being with them, I would certainly attribute that quality to MIB.

I don't see how my opinion of Ben fizzled when he was the one who killed Jacob.  I would consider that the epitome of evil.

This conversation is about whether or not MIB set up the play of Locke dying.  I say no.  Casey says yes.  I see him leveraging the fact of needing sacrifice.  Jacob called for John's sacrifice the same way he called for his own.  MIB intercepted the sacrifice.