Author Topic: Are we being misled?  (Read 4325 times)

Offline frasier9

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Are we being misled?
« on: March 03, 2010, 06:04:17 PM »
Anyone out there think of the theory that it is actualy Jacob who is the evil one and MIB the good one?  In the ancient scene, it was Jacob who was happy to see a boat approaching while MIB was trying to keep outsiders away.  Do you remember the scene in the cabin with the shaking rocking chair and the whisper of "Help me"?  MIB was the one who would seem to need help as he had no body.  Plus Claire, MIB's friend, was seen in the cabin as well.  The sand around the castle could have been Jacobs way to trap MIB in the cabin instead of what we thought was a way to keep smokey from coming in.  Jacob seemed just fine in the foot statue.  Before Jacob died, he warned Lock saying "they're coming" as if his evil plan of some kind of invasion will happen regardless of his death making MIB appear nervous.  Throughout all the seasons, Smokey seemed a little Schizophrenic.  Sometimes he was peacefull showing glimpses of people past life and sometimes it would rip peoples heads off.  I wonder if both Jacob and MIB both can be Smokey.  i guess i cant put my finger on it but it is definitely not perfectly clear as to who the evil one is...

Offline frasier9

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Are we being misled?
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2010, 06:11:04 PM »
Anyone out there think of the theory that it is actualy Jacob who is the evil one and MIB the good one?  In the ancient scene, it was Jacob who was happy to see a boat approaching while MIB was trying to keep outsiders away.  Do you remember the scene in the cabin with the shaking rocking chair and the whisper of "Help me"?  MIB was the one who would seem to need help as he had no body.  Plus Claire, MIB's friend, was seen in the cabin as well.  The sand around the castle could have been Jacobs way to trap MIB in the cabin instead of what we thought was a way to keep smokey from coming in.  Jacob seemed just fine in the foot statue.  Before Jacob died, he warned Lock saying "they're coming" as if his evil plan of some kind of invasion will happen regardless of his death making MIB appear nervous.  Throughout all the seasons, Smokey seemed a little Schizophrenic.  Sometimes he was peacefull showing glimpses of people past life and sometimes it would rip peoples heads off.  I wonder if both Jacob and MIB both can be Smokey.  i guess i cant put my finger on it but it is definitely not perfectly clear as to who the evil one is...

Offline Maxor127

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Re: Are we being misled?
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2010, 06:16:04 PM »
That theory has floated around.  Personally, I'm waiting for a twist like that to happen.  The whole way they're spoonfeeding how good Jacob seems to be and evil Smokey seems to be and by using white and black colors with them just makes me think they're trying to lead us on and then pull a twist.  Or maybe for once, they're being straightforward and some of us just can't accept it.

Offline BurkRoyer

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Re: Are we being misled?
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2010, 07:09:19 PM »
The answer to all your questions is... Yes

Offline jasond

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Re: Are we being misled?
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2010, 07:27:08 PM »
I had my suspicions last night when Dogan simply said Sayid's scale tipped the "wrong way" and not specifically bad or good. Then he later called MIB evil incarnate. Still, he may be deceived as well.

Offline BurkRoyer

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Re: Are we being misled?
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2010, 07:29:37 PM »
Yes... to all your questions

Offline MachThree

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Re: Are we being misled?
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2010, 07:33:58 PM »
Yes and no.  Its not so much that Smokey is bad and Jacob is good, or Vice-Versa.  I think its going to be more ambiguous than that.  They're both sort of good and sort of bad.  Either that, or they are both enemies of one-another but both are evil.  But before this season, we were pretty much lead to believe Jacob = good and smokey = bad, and that almost certainly (IMHO) is not the case.

I think they both want the same thing, they just differ on how to achieve it.  It might be more important to them, at this point, to show their way of achieving it is correct, than it is to actually achieve it (whatever it might be).

MAN IN BLACK: I don't have to ask. You brought them here. Still trying to prove me wrong, aren't you?
JACOB: You are wrong.
MAN IN BLACK: Am I? They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same.
JACOB: It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.  

Offline Rebel 3:16

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Re: Are we being misled?
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2010, 07:40:38 PM »
Smoke and Mirrors = deception and illusion - I think you are on the money, Jacob is bad - MiB is good or at least I feel their intentions are, maybe not the way they play them out.
We need to think, they have been here a very long time, they may have tried the nicely nicely approach but after hundreds of years have to resort to tougher and more devastating measures to reach their goals.

Offline BurkRoyer

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Re: Are we being misled?
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2010, 07:42:28 PM »
Maybe they are misleading you into thinking you are being mislead... hmm?

Offline MachThree

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Re: Are we being misled?
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2010, 07:58:29 PM »
Before we anoint Smokey the messiah, consider the guy goes around the Island grabbing people, tossing them into the air or flinging them at high speed into hard objects.  This isn't a saint we're talking about.  He might not be as pure evil as we've been lead to believe, but then he's no saint, either. 

Offline CaseyMac

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Re: Are we being misled?
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2010, 08:15:43 PM »
I think we are definitely being set up for a major twist at the end. Every season TPTB have blindsided us with something (flashbacks were actually flashforwards, opening scenes that looked like they were off-island were on-island, Locke not being Locke, etc.) I just get the feeling that this is not the twist.

-The light vs. dark imagery is classic good vs. evil. MIB is in black, Jacob is in white.
-Richard's reaction to MIB.
-MIB's apperant disgust with humanity (They come. They fight. They destroy, etc.)
-MIB's minions being ruthless killers. I mean he turned Claire into a psycho axe murderer.

I think there is alot of validity to the theory that they are either switched, or maybe just more shades of gray, but I'm sticking to the good guy in the white hat, and the bad guy in the black hat.

Offline lostcause

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Re: Are we being misled?
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2010, 08:24:25 PM »
Good evil who knows. The thought is what are they, why are they here on this island, why do they need humans to help them. Experiments for social order. "Q" on star trek rings a bell. Who/what/where/why onlt ten shows left. No real answers in sight.

Offline manwebe

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Re: Are we being misled?
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2010, 09:02:24 PM »
MIB/Lock throws the white stone into the ocean from the cave, tilting the scale in the favor of the black, then says to Sawyer, "Inside joke".  I think they're definitely wanting us to believe he's the evil one.   

Offline LostinLock

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Re: Are we being misled?
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2010, 10:34:00 PM »
I still say both Jacob and MIB have thier points it is how they go about achieving it that places them in the white and black lights. 
Jacob gets Sayid to join him by having the love of his life killed and MIB promises to bring that back to him
MIB tells Claire the others have Aaron to get her to do his bidding?

So now MIB is out of his genie bottle he will lead the way to go home.  But the Island won't let him until he lets someone else take his place and then it will start all over again.

And we will see Jack and Sawyer sitting on the beach having the same conversation

Offline MachThree

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Re: Are we being misled?
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2010, 10:48:32 PM »
I think we are definitely being set up for a major twist at the end. Every season TPTB have blindsided us with something (flashbacks were actually flashforwards, opening scenes that looked like they were off-island were on-island, Locke not being Locke, etc.) I just get the feeling that this is not the twist.

-The light vs. dark imagery is classic good vs. evil. MIB is in black, Jacob is in white.
-Richard's reaction to MIB.
-MIB's apperant disgust with humanity (They come. They fight. They destroy, etc.)
-MIB's minions being ruthless killers. I mean he turned Claire into a psycho axe murderer.

I think there is alot of validity to the theory that they are either switched, or maybe just more shades of gray, but I'm sticking to the good guy in the white hat, and the bad guy in the black hat.

One of the issues I have with Jacob being the "good guy" is that the only ones telling us this are the ones who are sided with Jacob - The Others.  Who also proclaim themselves to be the "good guys":

Michael:  Who *ARE* you people?
Ben:  We're the good guys, Michael

As Lapidus points out at the end of season 5:

Lapidus:  In my experience, the people who tell you they're the good guys are usually the bad guys.

I'm not saying this means Jacob is any worse than Smokey, but I think it hints that Jacob ain't exactly Mother Theresa.