Author Topic: Did Claire go in the pool? What exactly did Dogen mean Happened to Claire?  (Read 1673 times)

Offline SQUIRT199

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I haven't seen a specific thread on this but I know there have been posts about it. (I know the mods will be kind enough to redirect me)
Dogen said what is happening to Sayid also happened to "jacks sister".
Does this include a dip in the pool.
There was speculation that Claire was injured/killed, in the rocket attack at otherville.
Miles once said in an episode in that season, something like, "are you sure she'll be alright". Foreshadowing that she may indeed not be right. I can't remember if the lead up to that statement was Claire saying some crazy things (like miles saying that was a wisecrack), I just remember her being somewhat dizzy.

I just had a thought that maybe she did die and Smokey took her form when sawyer brought her out. but that wouldn't explain how Christian and after bomb Claire were in the cabin together when Locke went to the cabin.

So does what Dogen said mean that Claire was dipped in the pool, or just the infected part

« Last Edit: February 28, 2010, 01:25:46 PM by SQUIRT199 »

Offline LostinLock

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Re: Did Claire go in the pool? What exactly did Dogen mean Happened to Claire?
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2010, 03:00:40 PM »
Squirt I believe that Claire's "infection" happened in season four.  She went off with Christian, at the time she assume it was him.  Later in the episode when Locke came back to the cabin with Ben, he went in and saw Claire and Christian.  Claire was "nonchalant" and when he asked her if she was okay she replied yes and I am with him.  So as we now know she has a friend, MIB.  Somewhere from Christian taking her and leaving Aaron to John meeting up with them in the cabin there was a drastic change in Claire.  (BTW I went back to read the transcript because I think we were given a lot of information but not so sure what it was all about)

So personally I do not equate a dip in the spring with the darkness taking her over.  I think she was another of the recruits.  Now I think what will validate his ability to influence/infect living people will be how Sawyer will act. 

You are on the right track and I think Claire made it clear that the infection does kill you, maybe not physically but the person you once were.  We see a different Claire manifesting to Kate and Aaron. 

Dogen knows she was infected perion, nothing to do with the pool. 

Offline LovDom

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Re: Did Claire go in the pool? What exactly did Dogen mean Happened to Claire?
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2010, 03:05:25 PM »
Hmm, I think something similar happened to Roussau's crew. Then she injected herself with the stuff to protect her, we can say it helped. Strange, since Claire also put that stuff into her, shouldn't it like make her immune, or at least less sensitive to what ever happened to her?

Offline SQUIRT199

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Re: Did Claire go in the pool? What exactly did Dogen mean Happened to Claire?
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2010, 03:31:45 PM »
Squirt I believe that Claire's "infection" happened in season four.  She went off with Christian, at the time she assume it was him.  Later in the episode when Locke came back to the cabin with Ben, he went in and saw Claire and Christian.  Claire was "nonchalant" and when he asked her if she was okay she replied yes and I am with him.  So as we now know she has a friend, MIB.  Somewhere from Christian taking her and leaving Aaron to John meeting up with them in the cabin there was a drastic change in Claire.  (BTW I went back to read the transcript because I think we were given a lot of information but not so sure what it was all about)

So personally I do not equate a dip in the spring with the darkness taking her over.  I think she was another of the recruits.  Now I think what will validate his ability to influence/infect living people will be how Sawyer will act. 

You are on the right track and I think Claire made it clear that the infection does kill you, maybe not physically but the person you once were.  We see a different Claire manifesting to Kate and Aaron. 

Dogen knows she was infected perion, nothing to do with the pool. 

I agree with what you say regarding The season Calire was infected. But we do not exactly know when claire was infected. We havent exactly been shown what the infection is, but I was just wondering if the infection has something to do with the pool, since they showed that Sayid was infected after going in the pool,  maybe that is the risk Dogen was talking about.

You may become "infected" instead of healed.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2010, 03:33:58 PM by SQUIRT199 »

Offline LostinLock

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Re: Did Claire go in the pool? What exactly did Dogen mean Happened to Claire?
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2010, 03:35:41 PM »
Squirt-

No I think the pool thing was coincidence.  Meaning he came out dead and when he "tested" him he failed. 

But Lovdom I will agree  and have written similar thoughts on the infection and the injections they were taking, perhaps to prevent being taken over by the infection.

I think most viewers took it literally that there was something out there "infecting" them and causing death.  And yes it would cause death of the person they knew as opposed of terminating life. 

A very fine line here, but I think we may be on the right track.  I think this is one we will get an answer to.   ;D

Offline BadRobot64

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Re: Did Claire go in the pool? What exactly did Dogen mean Happened to Claire?
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2010, 04:56:44 PM »
Something that Justin said.. or was about to say while Claire had him tied up was ( paraphraseing...) "Youre remembering it all wrong" this made me think of how Ben didnt remember anything when he was brought to the Temple.. and how Sayid said "What happened?" after he awoke after being dipped in the pool... maybe Claire was dipped in the pool and only remembers what happened after... she awaok in a temple with the others.. and her memory starts there.. then she was "diagnosed" by Dogen and Lennon, and from her perspective without other 815ers there to explain to her that they were testing her.. she was being tortured... which is what Sayid thought when he was diagnosed. until Jack explained to him what was really happening. .. maybe Claire just acted out and escaped thinking that they were tortureing her... and escaped before she was given the pill?

Offline SQUIRT199

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Re: Did Claire go in the pool? What exactly did Dogen mean Happened to Claire?
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2010, 07:42:57 PM »
Something that Justin said.. or was about to say while Claire had him tied up was ( paraphraseing...) "Youre remembering it all wrong" this made me think of how Ben didnt remember anything when he was brought to the Temple.. and how Sayid said "What happened?" after he awoke after being dipped in the pool... maybe Claire was dipped in the pool and only remembers what happened after... she awaok in a temple with the others.. and her memory starts there.. then she was "diagnosed" by Dogen and Lennon, and from her perspective without other 815ers there to explain to her that they were testing her.. she was being tortured... which is what Sayid thought when he was diagnosed. until Jack explained to him what was really happening. .. maybe Claire just acted out and escaped thinking that they were tortureing her... and escaped before she was given the pill?

Thats what I am saying

Offline BadRobot64

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Re: Did Claire go in the pool? What exactly did Dogen mean Happened to Claire?
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2010, 08:40:30 PM »
wow.. did i actually speculate about somethign that might be true to the storyline? lol

Offline LostinLock

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Re: Did Claire go in the pool? What exactly did Dogen mean Happened to Claire?
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2010, 09:15:21 PM »
What does not fit with this theory is that in season four Claire's behavior altered when Locke met up with her in the cabin.  She was almost like she was drug induced.  So perhaps if she was dipped in the water then Christian brought her there.  Perhaps.

But Ben is not of the same situation he was brought to the temple to be healed, and we are assuming he was dipped in the pool.  I cannot recall if this was ever truly noted.  Richard said he wouldn't remember anything about his being hurt.  And to date it appears he doens't reallize he was shot does he or does he?

I just don't think that a dip in the pool makes you infected, because they do not want infected people amongst them.  So maybe I am missing something.

Offline BadRobot64

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Re: Did Claire go in the pool? What exactly did Dogen mean Happened to Claire?
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2010, 10:24:39 PM »
What does not fit with this theory is that in season four Claire's behavior altered when Locke met up with her in the cabin.  She was almost like she was drug induced.  So perhaps if she was dipped in the water then Christian brought her there.  Perhaps.

But Ben is not of the same situation he was brought to the temple to be healed, and we are assuming he was dipped in the pool.  I cannot recall if this was ever truly noted.  Richard said he wouldn't remember anything about his being hurt.  And to date it appears he doens't reallize he was shot does he or does he?

I just don't think that a dip in the pool makes you infected, because they do not want infected people amongst them.  So maybe I am missing something.
okay when ben was dipped in the pool it just proved that he WAS NOT infected... as bad as a person he is he was not infected... it just erased his memory because he was dipped... either way i just think that people when they are dipped their memory was erased for whatever reason. ben wasnt infected.

Offline laklost

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Re: Did Claire go in the pool? What exactly did Dogen mean Happened to Claire?
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2010, 11:06:21 PM »
Really?  I would think that Ben's evil doing look a lot like infection by a malevolent being.

Offline BadRobot64

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well they let Ben go... otherwise he was never " diagnosed  " as infected.

Offline jamesl

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...I just don't think that a dip in the pool makes you infected, because they do not want infected people amongst them.  So maybe I am missing something.
you are correct
the pool has nothing to do with infecting people
the risk Dogen was talking about was that the pool would not heal Sayid and that he would drown   
Dogen knew Sayid would be held under the water, he also knew the something was wrong with the water(it was murky), so he was guessing it might not work

the water being murky was a complete surprise to them, so it wasn't murky when little Ben was put in

Claire would only have been put into the pool if she was injured while they were trying to catch her and they needed her healed so they could question her, but that doesn't seem to be the case. It seems they just captured her, questioned her and tested her and then she escaped. Any lack of memory she has is from brainwashing from "her friend" and Christian. 

Offline LostinLock

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thanks JamesL

Okay here is where we (generally speaking  and inlcuding myself) start making assumptions. 

Ben was brought there to be healed.  No where in those scenes was he suspected of being infected.  He was then considered  part of the others.
Remember his innoncence was removed after being dipped.
 
Ben's overall demeanor afterwards was years of neglect/verbal abuse from his father.  Ben is a needy person to many degrees and his own ambitions are his downfall.
Does that make him evil?   We all have that balance of good and evil in ourselves and some more than others.
I have said and continue to say that Ben, justified his actions for the good of the island.  Be it good or bad he did it. NOW Ben is what?  Where is he and what is his purpose?  Altverse he is a school teacher.


this is what transpired when they gave Ben to Richard

RICHARD: Hello there, James. [Walking out from the jungle.]

SAWYER: Where the hell did you come from?

RICHARD: You asked my people to bring you to me. Here I am. [Sees Ben in Sawyer's arms.] Is that Benjamin Linus?

SAWYER: You two know each other?

RICHARD: What happened to him?

KATE: He was shot.

RICHARD: And who might you be?

SAWYER: She's with me.

RICHARD: And why are you here?

KATE: 'Cause we need you to save his life. Can you?

RICHARD: If I take him, he's not ever gonna be the same again.

KATE: What do you mean by that?

RICHARD: What I mean is that, he'll forget this ever happened, and that...his innocence will be gone. He will always be one of us. You still want me to take him?

KATE: Yes.



But that sweet innocent Ben, was not so sweet an innocent to begin with .  he was sneaky to start with and his beahvior after well.  I still am not going with infected by MIB. 

Offline MachThree

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I'm of the opinion that:

a) the stuff Desmond had injected himself with, that I think Claire and/or Aaron received a shot of, was just a placebo - the whole thing was a mind game, perpetrated in part by Kelvin, on Desmond, to keep him mainly confined to the Hatch.

b) Claire did indeed die in the rocket attach

c) the pool is unrelated to the infection.  The pool can save you, heal certain injuries (ala Ben).  If it fails, you die.  It doesn't infect you.

d) dying, I think, *is* related to the infection - Sayid died, got infected.  Claire, I believe, did die, got infected.  I'd also say that Christian died, dead body was brought to the island, and he was infected as well.

Perhaps the pool is the source of the islands healing powers - proximity to the pool causes you to heal faster than normal.  Actually being immersed in the pool, if it works, causes very fast or immediate healing.