Author Topic: DS  (Read 7061 times)

Offline infrared41

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Re: DS
« Reply #45 on: March 02, 2010, 02:43:45 PM »

2+2= a bowling ball. Best. Line. Ever.


Thanks.


Offline opgelost

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Re: DS
« Reply #46 on: March 02, 2010, 05:20:45 PM »
2+2= a bowling ball. Best. Line. Ever.

As for the OP. Alright. Let me work this out for you. The New Timeline is NOT the original timeline. The New Timeline is taking place in a seperate universe. Now hang with me here. We KNOW they were skipping through times. Is it possible that they were skipping through Universes as well. Swap "Universes" for "Dimensions" if it pleases you. Now when the Nuke got detonated the Losties were reset to their original "Where and When." That's the short version. I can go more in depth on it if you like, but you're David theory is loopy. I know we have known of the smoke monster longer than we have known of Jacob, but I think David is there as yet another homage to how drastically different things are in the Universe where the Island was destroyed.

"Go then, There are other worlds than these"

Their original where and when as in the original timeline as in how things are supposed to be?
A timeline with a different outcome, because they made other choices really out of free will, because they were not observed and manipulated from birth?

The bomb could not have created that, because in that timeline they didn't crash, didn't turn the wheel and didn't go back to the 70ies to use that bomb to begin with. The universe didn't change from 1977 on, in the plane in the LAX timeline were completely different people.

The bomb saved the island in the lost timeline, it anihilated the effect of the electromagnetic energy. And the price or sacrifice for manilpulating the people to a point where they use a bomb to save the island is that David in that manipulated, thus changed universe is not born.
It still is the whatever happened happened or we can change our destiny discussion. But the changed destiny is not the LAX one. It is the one where Jacob watched them and interacted. It is the one where Eloise needs to send Desmond to make that plane crash to travel to 1977 to use that bomb to save the island and where she has no other choice than killing her son before he is born. Otherwise the island would stop existing in 1977 and every single one of them would be dead. That's no free will.

Jack needs to stop asking if it is true, but start believing. What do you think does he needs to believe? That he has a choice or fixing the island and not have a son or have a son, but blow up the island. Jacob wants the lost universe, the island, David the original one, a family. Jack wants the original one too. He tried to get there using that bomb, but instead created the other one and now he is stuck there, everyone is dead. He needs to open his eyes and see that that universe is fake, that the choices he made were manipulated, that he is being watched from his birth and that there is another life, the original one, where he has a son and since the universe has a way to correct itself that son has to be here too, but because Jack didn't choose for his son, but for the island, his son is doomed to walk around as John Locke now.

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: DS
« Reply #47 on: March 02, 2010, 06:09:21 PM »
2+2= a bowling ball. Best. Line. Ever.

As for the OP. Alright. Let me work this out for you. The New Timeline is NOT the original timeline. The New Timeline is taking place in a separate universe. Now hang with me here. We KNOW they were skipping through times. Is it possible that they were skipping through Universes as well. Swap "Universes" for "Dimensions" if it pleases you. Now when the Nuke got detonated the Losties were reset to their original "Where and When." That's the short version. I can go more in depth on it if you like, but you're David theory is loopy. I know we have known of the smoke monster longer than we have known of Jacob, but I think David is there as yet another homage to how drastically different things are in the Universe where the Island was destroyed.

"Go then, There are other worlds than these"

Their original where and when as in the original timeline as in how things are supposed to be?
A timeline with a different outcome, because they made other choices really out of free will, because they were not observed and manipulated from birth?

The bomb could not have created that, because in that timeline they didn't crash, didn't turn the wheel and didn't go back to the 70ies to use that bomb to begin with. The universe didn't change from 1977 on, in the plane in the LAX timeline were completely different people.

The bomb saved the island in the lost timeline, it anihilated the effect of the electromagnetic energy. And the price or sacrifice for manilpulating the people to a point where they use a bomb to save the island is that David in that manipulated, thus changed universe is not born.
It still is the whatever happened happened or we can change our destiny discussion. But the changed destiny is not the LAX one. It is the one where Jacob watched them and interacted. It is the one where Eloise needs to send Desmond to make that plane crash to travel to 1977 to use that bomb to save the island and where she has no other choice than killing her son before he is born. Otherwise the island would stop existing in 1977 and every single one of them would be dead. That's no free will.

Jack needs to stop asking if it is true, but start believing. What do you think does he needs to believe? That he has a choice or fixing the island and not have a son or have a son, but blow up the island. Jacob wants the lost universe, the island, David the original one, a family. Jack wants the original one too. He tried to get there using that bomb, but instead created the other one and now he is stuck there, everyone is dead. He needs to open his eyes and see that that universe is fake, that the choices he made were manipulated, that he is being watched from his birth and that there is another life, the original one, where he has a son and since the universe has a way to correct itself that son has to be here too, but because Jack didn't choose for his son, but for the island, his son is doomed to walk around as John Locke now.

No. I think you're head is wrapped around your theory so soundly that you are missing what anyone else is saying. I feel bad for you because when the idea that you are so firmly stuck to proves to be false. you are going to be so amazingly depressed. You may even go on thinking that the version you saw was not the real one. Your theory spins itself into an incomprehensible mess and loses itself in the process. I think I get what you are trying to say, but you are wrong. I am not saying that my theory is right, but David is NOT the Man in Black. With your idea, how can the island be non existant in 2004, (underwater) and inhabitable (Losties are on it) in 2007? This is a fundamental question of physics regarding your little theory. You say mine is discredited By the losties blowing the island up in 1977, so how does yours hold up to this very basic idea of physical presence. The island is underwater in '04, and inhabited in '07. Go.

Offline IFP

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Re: DS
« Reply #48 on: March 02, 2010, 06:23:12 PM »
The island is underwater in '04, and inhabited in '07. Go.

Um, I don't mean to speak for opgelost, but I think (THINK!), that maybe, we are dealing with two different timelines?
Just a hunch.

And BTW, I'm with you opgelost, at least in the sense that the original destiny is the one without Jacob's influence, and the one that MIB wanted to preserve, whereas Jacob's will is obviously the LOST timeline. Is it a coincidence that the MIB's preferred timeline is the one where David exists? That remains to be seen, but it's pretty shortsighted to ignore that odd connection.

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: DS
« Reply #49 on: March 02, 2010, 06:36:38 PM »
The island is underwater in '04, and inhabited in '07. Go.

Um, I don't mean to speak for opgelost, but I think (THINK!), that maybe, we are dealing with two different timelines?
Just a hunch.

And BTW, I'm with you opgelost, at least in the sense that the original destiny is the one without Jacob's influence, and the one that MIB wanted to preserve, whereas Jacob's will is obviously the LOST timeline. Is it a coincidence that the MIB's preferred timeline is the one where David exists? That remains to be seen, but it's pretty shortsighted to ignore that odd connection.

Right. 2 different Timelines. In my theory I say Dimensions, in his he says Timelines. I am failing to see where an endgame falls into place here. MiB wants to go home. Where is that in this timeline? How does he achieve that from killing off the candidates as he appears wot to do? Also what makes David head back in time to the island to become MiB....in about 20 years? All of these things still need explaining in the remainder of these 12 Episodes. Unique Swing at things, but I feel this one is a miss. I don't necessarily disagree at the objectives of MiB (New Dimension) or Jacob (LOST dimension), just feel that no chance David is MiB. They would have a hell of alot of character development to get David to the point where he becomes MiB.

Offline infrared41

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Re: DS
« Reply #50 on: March 02, 2010, 09:40:13 PM »
2+2= a bowling ball. Best. Line. Ever.

As for the OP. Alright. Let me work this out for you. The New Timeline is NOT the original timeline. The New Timeline is taking place in a seperate universe. Now hang with me here. We KNOW they were skipping through times. Is it possible that they were skipping through Universes as well. Swap "Universes" for "Dimensions" if it pleases you. Now when the Nuke got detonated the Losties were reset to their original "Where and When." That's the short version. I can go more in depth on it if you like, but you're David theory is loopy. I know we have known of the smoke monster longer than we have known of Jacob, but I think David is there as yet another homage to how drastically different things are in the Universe where the Island was destroyed.

"Go then, There are other worlds than these"

Their original where and when as in the original timeline as in how things are supposed to be?
A timeline with a different outcome, because they made other choices really out of free will, because they were not observed and manipulated from birth?

The bomb could not have created that, because in that timeline they didn't crash, didn't turn the wheel and didn't go back to the 70ies to use that bomb to begin with. The universe didn't change from 1977 on, in the plane in the LAX timeline were completely different people.

The bomb saved the island in the lost timeline, it anihilated the effect of the electromagnetic energy. And the price or sacrifice for manilpulating the people to a point where they use a bomb to save the island is that David in that manipulated, thus changed universe is not born.
It still is the whatever happened happened or we can change our destiny discussion. But the changed destiny is not the LAX one. It is the one where Jacob watched them and interacted. It is the one where Eloise needs to send Desmond to make that plane crash to travel to 1977 to use that bomb to save the island and where she has no other choice than killing her son before he is born. Otherwise the island would stop existing in 1977 and every single one of them would be dead. That's no free will.

Jack needs to stop asking if it is true, but start believing. What do you think does he needs to believe? That he has a choice or fixing the island and not have a son or have a son, but blow up the island. Jacob wants the lost universe, the island, David the original one, a family. Jack wants the original one too. He tried to get there using that bomb, but instead created the other one and now he is stuck there, everyone is dead. He needs to open his eyes and see that that universe is fake, that the choices he made were manipulated, that he is being watched from his birth and that there is another life, the original one, where he has a son and since the universe has a way to correct itself that son has to be here too, but because Jack didn't choose for his son, but for the island, his son is doomed to walk around as John Locke now.
This is a serious question; do you actually watch LOST? If so, are you watching it on acid or something?


Offline opgelost

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Re: DS
« Reply #51 on: March 03, 2010, 09:57:44 AM »
Quote
With your idea, how can the island be non existant in 2004, (underwater) and inhabitable (Losties are on it) in 2007?

Where the island is gone in 2004 that is the original timeline. Jacob and MIB travel back in time and change that timeline by manipulating 360 people in making different choices than the first time. That choices lead them to explode Jughead in 1977 and save the island this time, so it can exist in 2007.
Like did the losties change things in 1977? Was there a original time where Sayid didn't shoot Ben and Eloise didn't kill Daniel, because they didn't go back in time?

Quote
Right. 2 different Timelines. In my theory I say Dimensions, in his he says Timelines. I am failing to see where an endgame falls into place here. MiB wants to go home. Where is that in this timeline? How does he achieve that from killing off the candidates as he appears wot to do? Also what makes David head back in time to the island to become MiB....in about 20 years? All of these things still need explaining in the remainder of these 12 Episodes. Unique Swing at things, but I feel this one is a miss. I don't necessarily disagree at the objectives of MiB (New Dimension) or Jacob (LOST dimension), just feel that no chance David is MiB. They would have a hell of alot of character development to get David to the point where he becomes MiB.

I am a she. David doesn't have to go back in 20 years. It can happen tomorrow. I don't know about the endgame, maybe they can go back in time again to the original timeline in 2004 and continue without manipulations. Jacob promised Dogen he could have his son back, MIB promised Sayid he could have Nadia back. Both died in a weird caraccident. You can only have dead people back if you reset time. They have to reset it to LAXtimeline 2004, but the consequence is that the island will be gone. But MIB will be home and all the dead losties alife in a free life and if they remember everything, a better life.

Quote
You say mine is discredited By the losties blowing the island up in 1977

I say the contrary. They saved the island in 1977 with Jughead, because the DI would have blowed up the island, drilling in the field of electromagnetic energy. They stopped that with the bomb. That is what Jacob wanted, why he manipulated them to the island. In the original timeline they didn't use the bomb and Radzinski destroyed the island. The DI blew it up.
It is David alife and no island or the island saved and no David.

Quote
This is a serious question; do you actually watch LOST? If so, are you watching it on acid or something?

You say we are not talking about CSI Miami here??
I watch Lost and I think it is a show about free will, choices, how people are influenced by the choices they make, human relations and how every choice you make can be in the best interest of someone, but at the same time catastrophic for another. And the choices Jack made in this timeline are catastrophic for the son that he is supposed to have.
What are you watching? What do you think this show is about?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2010, 10:06:53 AM by opgelost »

Offline opgelost

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Re: DS
« Reply #52 on: March 03, 2010, 10:05:39 AM »
The island is underwater in '04, and inhabited in '07. Go.

Um, I don't mean to speak for opgelost, but I think (THINK!), that maybe, we are dealing with two different timelines?
Just a hunch.

And BTW, I'm with you opgelost, at least in the sense that the original destiny is the one without Jacob's influence, and the one that MIB wanted to preserve, whereas Jacob's will is obviously the LOST timeline. Is it a coincidence that the MIB's preferred timeline is the one where David exists? That remains to be seen, but it's pretty shortsighted to ignore that odd connection.

Thank you. I was starting to think that I really saw a different show for 5 years.

The importance of Adam and Eve will not be who they are, but that they are Smoky's parents, David's parents. He put them in the cave where he brings Jack to. That's how the makers show that they allready knew what the end would be in season 1. The end will be about
the man in black, David, being born and having a family in the original time.

Offline lostfromthestart

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Re: DS
« Reply #53 on: March 03, 2010, 11:13:53 AM »
In the end it will all be a game, literally.  We will pan out and learn that "Jacob/Aaron" and "MIB/Flocke/David" are two kids playing some type of imaginative board game at their grandpa's (Christian's) house.  They keep playing it over and over again, changing some minor detail along the way, that results in a different "timeline/dimension/story" each time they play it. 

In this way, 2 + 2 can = bowling ball.

Just like in St. Elsewhere, Men in Black and other classic endings.  Not saying this would be good or even classic, in this case.  But it does have a snowglobe's chance in hell of happening.

Offline lostfan777

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Re: DS
« Reply #54 on: March 03, 2010, 01:01:22 PM »
I'm not sure about David being the MIB, but I can see the logic behind him being trapped (and in smoke or 'spirit' form) because someone changed the past and he was never born.  In the different timelines, the same events are destined to happen, Locke in wheelchair, Hurley wins lottery, etc., even if the circumstances leading up to them are different.  The universe course corrects events that are destined.  If someone such as Faraday discovers how to go back in time (this would explain why Widmore and Eloise are so important), and events get changed so much so that someone that HAD been born (before the time travel) CANNOT be born at all because of the changes, what would happen to their spirit or soul?

It isn't completely off the wall that the MIB is trapped on the island because his true physical form doesn't come to exist.  It isn't completely crazy that he is David since David is the only person we've seen so far that only exists in the LA X timeline.  In order to get 'home' he would have to somehow reverse the changed events that prevented his being born in the altered timeline we have been watching for five+ seasons. 

This theory, which completely disagrees with the bible theories I've held for a few years now, isn't absolutely crazy, but I have to say that I agree with some folks here who think there is no way they can take this turn so late in the story.  Not only would they have to explain to us who MIB actually is (David or otherwise), but who and what prevented his birth.  Also, who is Jacob and why is there a rivalry between them.  Why would Jacob want to keep MIB trapped.  I can see the faith vs. science aspect of it, or even free will vs. destiny, but what does all of this have to do with good vs. evil, black vs. white?

Actually, now that I think of it, most of our theories, including my own, are quickly running out of time.  I'm not going to call anyone insane at this point for what they believe.

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: DS
« Reply #55 on: March 03, 2010, 01:17:39 PM »
Quote
With your idea, how can the island be non existant in 2004, (underwater) and inhabitable (Losties are on it) in 2007?

Quote
Where the island is gone in 2004 that is the original timeline. Jacob and MIB travel back in time and change that timeline by manipulating 360 people in making different choices than the first time. That choices lead them to explode Jughead in 1977 and save the island this time, so it can exist in 2007.
Like did the losties change things in 1977? Was there a original time where Sayid didn't shoot Ben and Eloise didn't kill Daniel, because they didn't go back in time?

Okay. You have disproven your thoery about the island. You say they saved the island in 1977 with Jughead. So it could be there in 2007. But....WHERE WAS IT IN 2004! That's it I'm done. If you still stand firm on this then thats all well and good. There is nothing I can do to change that. Cheers.




Offline opgelost

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Re: DS
« Reply #56 on: March 03, 2010, 03:41:57 PM »
It was there in 2004 because they saved it with jughead the SECOND time.

timeline:

1977 Dharma drills in the ground and island is destroyed by the electromagnetic energy that they free.
22 september 2004 no island. The plane flies over, because it is destroyed in 1977.
23 september 2004 David travels to 1800 somehow.

1800 new timeline - start manipulating people, time goes on.
1977 manipulated people use a bomb, that destroys the electromagnetic energy - island is saved.
22 september 2004 - island is there, because saved by manipulated people with a bomb in 1977 - plane crashes.
2007 - island is still there, because saved by manipulated people in 1977.

Loop: the plane needs to crash in 2004, so that they can go to 1977 to use that bomb.

Original timeline no island in 2004, manipulated timeline island in 2004 and 2007.

Offline lostfan777

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Re: DS
« Reply #57 on: March 03, 2010, 03:43:47 PM »
Well, for one thing, this thread explains why they were all getting bloody noses during the 'jumps'!

Offline opgelost

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Re: DS
« Reply #58 on: March 03, 2010, 03:47:07 PM »
I'm not sure about David being the MIB, but I can see the logic behind him being trapped (and in smoke or 'spirit' form) because someone changed the past and he was never born.  In the different timelines, the same events are destined to happen, Locke in wheelchair, Hurley wins lottery, etc., even if the circumstances leading up to them are different.  The universe course corrects events that are destined.  If someone such as Faraday discovers how to go back in time (this would explain why Widmore and Eloise are so important), and events get changed so much so that someone that HAD been born (before the time travel) CANNOT be born at all because of the changes, what would happen to their spirit or soul?

It isn't completely off the wall that the MIB is trapped on the island because his true physical form doesn't come to exist.  It isn't completely crazy that he is David since David is the only person we've seen so far that only exists in the LA X timeline.  In order to get 'home' he would have to somehow reverse the changed events that prevented his being born in the altered timeline we have been watching for five+ seasons. 

This theory, which completely disagrees with the bible theories I've held for a few years now, isn't absolutely crazy, but I have to say that I agree with some folks here who think there is no way they can take this turn so late in the story.  Not only would they have to explain to us who MIB actually is (David or otherwise), but who and what prevented his birth.  Also, who is Jacob and why is there a rivalry between them.  Why would Jacob want to keep MIB trapped.  I can see the faith vs. science aspect of it, or even free will vs. destiny, but what does all of this have to do with good vs. evil, black vs. white?

Actually, now that I think of it, most of our theories, including my own, are quickly running out of time.  I'm not going to call anyone insane at this point for what they believe.

I think jacob prevented his birth and that he doesn't want MIB trapped. He wants to save the island and wanted to save his own life.
And I think it is not good versus evil. Everybody has two sides, Jacob and MIB too.

Offline opgelost

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Re: DS
« Reply #59 on: March 03, 2010, 03:49:41 PM »
Well, for one thing, this thread explains why they were all getting bloody noses during the 'jumps'!

I'm sorry. Let's just see what happens.