Author Topic: infection = possession  (Read 12678 times)

Offline MachThree

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Re: infection = possession
« Reply #105 on: February 12, 2010, 03:08:47 PM »
..  In other words, Sayid Jarrah was an accomplished torturer who wept like a baby during torture. 

I think that's due to the resurrection.
He just came back from the dead. His body and mind were still very weak.

They held a red hot poker on his chest for several seconds.  What training should he have received that would make him simply brush that off? 

Offline opgelost

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Re: infection = possession
« Reply #106 on: February 13, 2010, 06:29:58 AM »
All we know is the Dogan tells Jack he is infected....They could want Sayid dead.....What if Sayid is wanted to be the new Jacob or his vessel so to speak.....Why were certain people selected or brought to the Island? Now what if Jack by taking the poison he becomes the new Jacob?

I mean that would set up the classic battle between Jacob vs MIB....Faith(religionS) VS Science....maybe even not that I have seen it Good Vs Evil

But like Widmore Say ...There is a war coming

Jacob put a note in the guitarcase with their names on it, before they went back to 1977 and Sayid got shot by Roger Linus. He told Hurley
to bring Sayid to the temple, because he needed to be saved and Dogen said that if he died, they would all be in big trouble. They tried to save him, but it didn't work, he died. they didn't even know that Jacob was dead when they did it, because Hurley tells them later.
Now they are in big trouble, because Sayid died and his body got possessed.
Why would they want Sayid dead if Jacob told them to save him and they all are followers of Jacob? They want the thing that is in Sayid now dead.

They brought them all to the temple to save them from Smokey. But Sawyer ran away and Kate escaped and Jack doesn't want to kill the darkness that is in Sayid and tries to commit suicide and Jin only wants to find Sun. I would just drown them all, if I was an other.

Offline MangoBingo

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Re: infection = possession
« Reply #107 on: February 13, 2010, 06:47:41 AM »
Jacob put a note in the guitarcase with their names on it, before they went back to 1977 and Sayid got shot by Roger Linus. He told Hurley
to bring Sayid to the temple, because he needed to be saved and Dogen said that if he died, they would all be in big trouble. They tried to save him, but it didn't work, he died. they didn't even know that Jacob was dead when they did it, because Hurley tells them later.
Now they are in big trouble, because Sayid died and his body got possessed.

Something doesn't make sense.

If Jacob had the foresight to write a list of names (knowing that Hurley would eventually give the list to the Temple Leader) why didn't he add to the note:

"P.S. If you are reading this, I am dead. Don't dunk anybody in the pool!!! Laterz! lolz"

...or words to that effect?

You know, you either have all-seeing foresight, or you don't.

Why did Jacob tell Hurley to take Sayid to The Temple at all? It was Jacob's magical pool, wasn't it? Wouldn't Jacob of all people know that it wouldn't function properly after his death - especially as he was instructing Hurley whilst in an apparent state of being dead!!!

I've thought about the possibility of Jacob being Smokey when instructing Hurley to take Sayid to The Temple, but Smokey seems to need bodies in close proximity to impersonate people, and Jacob's was incinerated at that time.

There's also the fact that Dogen never considered the possibility that the "Jacob" Hurley was instructed by, could have been Smokey. Maybe Smokey can't impersonate a body that Jacob previously had, so that's why he kicked Jacob's body into the fire, because it was unuseable to him?

Offline LostinLock

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Re: infection = possession
« Reply #108 on: February 13, 2010, 07:14:11 AM »
Jacob put a note in the guitarcase with their names on it, before they went back to 1977 and Sayid got shot by Roger Linus. He told Hurley
to bring Sayid to the temple, because he needed to be saved and Dogen said that if he died, they would all be in big trouble. They tried to save him, but it didn't work, he died. they didn't even know that Jacob was dead when they did it, because Hurley tells them later.
Now they are in big trouble, because Sayid died and his body got possessed.

Something doesn't make sense.

If Jacob had the foresight to write a list of names (knowing that Hurley would eventually give the list to the Temple Leader) why didn't he add to the note:

"P.S. If you are reading this, I am dead. Don't dunk anybody in the pool!!! Laterz! lolz"

...or words to that effect?

You know, you either have all-seeing foresight, or you don't.

Why did Jacob tell Hurley to take Sayid to The Temple at all? It was Jacob's magical pool, wasn't it? Wouldn't Jacob of all people know that it wouldn't function properly after his death - especially as he was instructing Hurley whilst in an apparent state of being dead!!!

I've thought about the possibility of Jacob being Smokey when instructing Hurley to take Sayid to The Temple, but Smokey seems to need bodies in close proximity to impersonate people, and Jacob's was incinerated at that time.

There's also the fact that Dogen never considered the possibility that the "Jacob" Hurley was instructed by, could have been Smokey. Maybe Smokey can't impersonate a body that Jacob previously had, so that's why he kicked Jacob's body into the fire, because it was unuseable to him?

Ummm you just made me realize something Jacob was burned so nothing can take his body over, period.  We have been through ths body burying , burning on the island iti s repeated so whatever th reason it does not allow that body to be taken over.
I am not so sure that Smokey has to be close by to take the image over afterwasrd.  Why he knew wha Locke felt, okay we can be opning another avneue here, but the point is that Locke was in LA at thhe time of death.  So can he just go through teh portals that Ben went through?    An if Smokey i still think something even if it is Smokey had Ben's Mom appear and seh was not on that island at all.  So is it cerebral ?

The note in the guitar case.  WE do not know what it said it may have provided them with just enough information for Dogen to make sure that nothing happened to these people.  Even Lennon (guy with glasses ) tells Kate brng sawywer back safe and I could be rwong but alive.  There is cause for keeping tese people safe.


Offline MangoBingo

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Re: infection = possession
« Reply #109 on: February 13, 2010, 07:22:44 AM »
I am not so sure that Smokey has to be close by to take the image over afterwasrd.  Why he knew wha Locke felt, okay we can be opning another avneue here, but the point is that Locke was in LA at thhe time of death.  So can he just go through teh portals that Ben went through?

I don't think time is an issue. I just think that the dead body has to be on The Island at some point in time. However, I think that incinerating the body at any time, renders it useless to Smokey.

I'm hoping that Locke's corpse (currently unceremoniously sprawled on the beach) is burned at some point. It would answer a lot of my questions.

I started a whole big thread about dead bodies last night!:

http://lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php/topic,10291.0.html

 :)

Offline LostinLock

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Re: infection = possession
« Reply #110 on: February 13, 2010, 07:29:41 AM »
I am not so sure that Smokey has to be close by to take the image over afterwasrd.  Why he knew wha Locke felt, okay we can be opning another avneue here, but the point is that Locke was in LA at thhe time of death.  So can he just go through teh portals that Ben went through?

I don't think time is an issue. I just think that the dead body has to be on The Island at some point in time. However, I think that incinerating the body at any time, renders it useless to Smokey.

I'm hoping that Locke's corpse (currently unceremoniously sprawled on the beach) is burned at some point. It would answer a lot of my questions.

I started a whole big thread about dead bodies last night!:

http://lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php/topic,10291.0.html

 :)

I wish you would podcast your stuff so when i am at the gym I can listen to it.  A your voice is easy to listen to and I enjoy your well thought and researched theories.
pulling out of the air doesn't work for me.  Guess that is my character ;)

Offline opgelost

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Re: infection = possession
« Reply #111 on: February 13, 2010, 08:58:28 AM »
Why did Jacob tell Hurley to take Sayid to The Temple at all? It was Jacob's magical pool, wasn't it? Wouldn't Jacob of all people know that it wouldn't function properly after his death - especially as he was instructing Hurley whilst in an apparent state of being dead!!!

Because he was just killed and discovered Smokey was walking around disguised as John Locke. They would absolutely trust Locke, even if they know he died, so Jacob had to get them to the temple, to keep them safe from Smoky and to let the templepeople know that he had just been killed and Smoky was free and they had to be carefull and that if one of the losties would come back to life, they had to test him and kick him out of the temple or kill him. The only one Jacob could talk to was Hurley. Hurley desperately wanted to save Sayid, but could only get to the temple with the information Jin had, because he travelled to the time when Rousseau's team got there. Jin also saw what happened when somebody gets infected.

I don't think Jacob is forseeing or all-knowing. I still believe they are playing a strategic game and try to move the losties in the direction they want putting things on their way that will make them choose the thing they want them to choose, but they cannot force them, because they have free will. Jacob is trying to prove Smoky wrong. Smoky is trying to find a way to kill Jacob and turn back home. Jacob is dead, but still in the game. He has a lot of followers and talks to them through Hurley. 

Offline LostinLock

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Re: infection = possession
« Reply #112 on: February 13, 2010, 10:42:22 AM »
Yeah that is an odd calling card to say hey save my friends but then this is lost

Offline Adriana

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Re: infection = possession
« Reply #113 on: February 13, 2010, 04:57:58 PM »

Jacob put a note in the guitarcase with their names on it, before they went back to 1977 and Sayid got shot by Roger Linus. He told Hurley
to bring Sayid to the temple, because he needed to be saved and Dogen said that if he died, they would all be in big trouble. They tried to save him, but it didn't work, he died. they didn't even know that Jacob was dead when they did it, because Hurley tells them later.
Now they are in big trouble, because Sayid died and his body got possessed.
Why would they want Sayid dead if Jacob told them to save him and they all are followers of Jacob? They want the thing that is in Sayid now dead.

They brought them all to the temple to save them from Smokey. But Sawyer ran away and Kate escaped and Jack doesn't want to kill the darkness that is in Sayid and tries to commit suicide and Jin only wants to find Sun. I would just drown them all, if I was an other.

Too hilarious!!!  You empathize with the Others pretty accurately.

Offline westy185

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Re: infection = possession
« Reply #114 on: February 15, 2010, 07:22:40 PM »

I think about the Spanish commercial released before this season that put everything into a chess context.  Presumably, all of the characters are the pieces and Jacob plays the white.  Some pieces are coerced into movements by deception and clever play.  Some are captured.

The evidence seems to be that MIB/Smokey clones the dead.  These would include Locke, Christian, and Yemi...and possibly other instances of apparitions from the consciousnesses of Islanders.  Like Dave.

MIB plays the game by manipulating others using pieces he has already claimed, and his goal in winning the game is to get home.  Maybe pack up the spaceship (Island) and leave this planet of unworthy beings.  Jacob's goal is to redeem humanity.

I don't think that the dark souls like Sayid and Claire are possessed in the sense that Linda Blair portrayed.  They may be "possessed" in the way one possesses the captured pieces of an opponent in chess.

In the case of Sayid, I think the more appropriate word might be damned.


So well said, Creflo, I wanted to quote it again.

This all goes back to the beginning of the show: backgammon, black and white, the Others creating lists, claims of being the "good" guys, infection - all this was brought up in the first season. Clearly this Lost is a version of the eternal struggle between good and evil.

I've proposed for years now that the Others do not let people in their club who have caused the deaths of other people - using Creflo's term - they are damned so not eligible to join. The Others have been shown to be able to gather a lot of intel about our Losties, it seems to come from the outside world and certainly Ben has agents on the outside world working for him, but maybe Smokey has more to do with this than outerworld private investigators.

Smokey has been able to read minds from the beginning - it's the only explanation for the appearance of Dave, who we know only existed within the mind of Hurley and clearly Smokey's encounter with Echo was very much like a mind reading. Locke and Echo both referred to their encounters and being judged. We also know Ben had some control over Smokey, other Others may have, too. It was always creepy to me how matter-of-factly Rousseau referred to Smokey as "a security system." She sounded very sure and very unafraid of it, like this was nothing magical or supernatural, just some THING that could be put to practical use. Perhaps Smokey is not MIB/UnLocke at all, he is just calling it to do his bidding. I know UnLocke said something like, "sorry you had to see me that way" but we know the guy lies.

Offline LostinLock

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Re: infection = possession
« Reply #115 on: February 15, 2010, 08:37:43 PM »
Nice points on both sides but where does the island a character since the start fit in on the "sides' of black and white?

Offline grizn0

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Re: infection = possession
« Reply #116 on: February 16, 2010, 08:44:49 AM »
I'm starting to think there are 3 parties at play here. Jacob, MIB, and the Island itself.

Offline LostinLock

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Re: infection = possession
« Reply #117 on: February 16, 2010, 09:06:53 AM »
I'm starting to think there are 3 parties at play here. Jacob, MIB, and the Island itself.

Well, Griz how are you and here is a case of your favorite beer.  I found someone who is on the same island as me.  Geesh! I was wondering if it was my deodorant

Offline lovinlost

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Re: infection = possession
« Reply #118 on: February 16, 2010, 03:07:43 PM »

I thought he passed the test by being injured and not turning into a smokey
I was really suprised when they said he failed

I'm not saying this is true, but an interesting thought, nonetheless...

What if there was NO electric current being passed through Sayid, but he screamed anyway?  They would know for sure he was faking.  He failed the test.

And the ash being blown over the top of him was to keep Smokey from escaping from Sayid's body.

And the hot poker was actually just a branding or mark.

However, one problem I have with the idea of Sayid being inhabited by Smokey is that Smokey doesn't inhabit bodies.  He uses the IMAGES of dead bodies.

Offline MachThree

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Re: infection = possession
« Reply #119 on: February 16, 2010, 05:08:40 PM »

What if there was NO electric current being passed through Sayid, but he screamed anyway?  They would know for sure he was faking.  He failed the test.


I like this line of reasoning - its the first I've seen that actually might make sense as to why Sayid failed.