Author Topic: NOT the Incident  (Read 4991 times)

Offline BobBX542

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NOT the Incident
« on: January 20, 2010, 01:18:41 PM »
Hey guys, I have been rewatching all of LOST like I do every year (a disc a day keeps the jonesing at bay) and after re-watching the S2 episode "Orientation", I got to thinking aout some things. Actually, the epsiode in conjunction with something that Lindeloff and Cuse said in the S5 special features got me thinking. They were talking about how people were asking them about the idea of a "reset button", and what is the point of all of it if it was just going to be reset with the incident. Well, in the Orientation video Dr. Chang makes a big deal about not using the computer for anything other than entering the numbers, because anything else (communication to the outside world) could lead to another incident. Well, fast forward three years, and we are all sitting around watching the Season 5 finale titled "The Incident", and yet it didn't occur to me until now that what happened in the S5 finale had nothing to do with a computer, or communicating with the outside world. So, what's the point you ask?? Well stop interrupting me and I will tell you. What I'm saying, is that in my opinion, what we saw in the S5 finale was not "the incident" referred to in "Orientation". I think that it actually was like a reset button. And since we saw the scene at the end, after the bomb goes off, of Jack's eye opening in S1, the only question I have at the moment is what exactly (or rather why exactly) did they go back to then, and not some other place or time. Thoughts??

Oh, and check this out. Made me laugh out loud. Special guest appearance by Lindeloff and Cuse.
http://www.babelgum.com/browser.php#play/SEARCH_SIMILAR,clipID:4022193,includeClip:true,order:MOST_RELEVANT/0,4022193

Offline BurkRoyer

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Re: NOT the Incident
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2010, 03:19:46 PM »
I think the reason they were told not to communicate with the outside world was to prevent them from communicating with the Pearl Station.  That would lead them to believe they didn't need to push the button, which would lead to another "Incident."  The Incident being the super strong magnetic anamoly, which did happen because they communicated with the outside world and decided not to push the button.

Offline BobBX542

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Re: NOT the Incident
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2010, 03:28:14 PM »
I think the reason they were told not to communicate with the outside world was to prevent them from communicating with the Pearl Station.  That would lead them to believe they didn't need to push the button, which would lead to another "Incident."  The Incident being the super strong magnetic anamoly, which did happen because they communicated with the outside world and decided not to push the button.

I think I understand what you mean, but could you expand on that?? The only person to communicate with anyone, using the computer, was Michael, and he only talked to Walt (at least we are led to believe it was Walt...DUN-DUN-DUNNNNNNN). That had no bearing on whether or not they continued to push the button.

Offline BurkRoyer

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Re: NOT the Incident
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2010, 04:37:17 PM »
What I mean is, the specific act of communicating with the outside world doesn't cause the incident.  And I don't think he said that in the video.  I think he said, don't communicate or another incident might happen, not it would cause another incident. (However, I haven't watch it in a while).  Not Pushing the button causes the incident.  Communicating with the outside mostly likely would lead to not pushing the button.  I don't know what the real reason for having the Pearl station was.  Seemed pretty pointless to me.  However, if the Swan station ever communicated with them and the Pearlees spilled the beans, the Swanees would probably not pushed the button (like Locke didn't) and cause another incident....

Now that I said all that,  I don't understand why they just didn't cut the communication from the Swan in/out?!?  But that's what you get from a TV shows that's mostly made up as it goes along... I'm just try to justify it so I can enjoy the show...

Another reason I believe it was the Incident was because is episode is called, "The Incident"  I don't think they would lie to us like that... The show is confusing enough as it is :)

Offline BurkRoyer

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Re: NOT the Incident
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2010, 06:40:56 PM »
OK.  Just reread your post and realize I didn't answer your question of how using the computer to communicate with the outside world caused a second Incident.  The maker of the video assumed the only communication with the outside world was through the computer, since he never thought they'd have time to find the other hatches in 108 minutes and with a virus outside... So he was only concerned with using the computer as a communication device... It was the communicating that was the issue, not using the computer... However, when Locke went to the Pearl station he discovered what he thought was a legitimate source saying that pushing the button was a psychological experiment.  So, he didn't push the button and caused another Incident.  This was a effectively a communication to Locke from the outside world, even though it was not via the computer... I'm probably still confusing, but that's the best I can do...
« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 06:44:17 PM by Time-Jumper »

Offline E.S.B.

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Re: NOT the Incident
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2010, 06:43:26 PM »
Time-Jumper, I really like your explanation to this.  Well done.

Offline canadian eh

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Re: NOT the Incident
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2010, 08:08:59 PM »
while reading your posts i thought what if everything does reset, maybe the people on the black rock are none other than our losties and when you leave the island you cant come back like charles widmore or micheal but the losties can because they just keep reseting

Offline LostinLock

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Re: NOT the Incident
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2010, 09:37:23 AM »
OK.  Just reread your post and realize I didn't answer your question of how using the computer to communicate with the outside world caused a second Incident.  The maker of the video assumed the only communication with the outside world was through the computer, since he never thought they'd have time to find the other hatches in 108 minutes and with a virus outside... So he was only concerned with using the computer as a communication device... It was the communicating that was the issue, not using the computer... However, when Locke went to the Pearl station he discovered what he thought was a legitimate source saying that pushing the button was a psychological experiment.  So, he didn't push the button and caused another Incident.  This was a effectively a communication to Locke from the outside world, even though it was not via the computer... I'm probably still confusing, but that's the best I can do...

Basically, if i am understanding this, the project/thought was comprimised by communications outside of that station, with anyone other than who was in there.  It is the variable human choice.  Desmond and others were conditioned.  I think this was Radzinskys personal hell for making them continue to dig after they said stop.  Though I do quite understand about the fact that they had to push it for the electromagnetic item also.

nice job ~ good to see some folks popping in

Offline BobBX542

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Re: NOT the Incident
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2010, 09:37:44 AM »
Time-Jumper Not to sound like a smart a$$, but I had to read that a few times before I understand what you were saying, and this is what I got out of your reply.

Any communication at all would lead to another incident.

If I am misunderstanding that, then please feel free to correct me. But the point I was trying to make was based on what we were told in the Orientation video. And this is the reasoning for my thinking. When we first see the movie, we initially believed it, and what "Dr. Wickman" was saying. Then we see the spliced portions that Mr. Eko brings to the hatch, and it seems to reinforce what we were already believing. Then comes the sucker punch where in the Pearl we are told that everything in the Swan is fake. BUT, it's not fake. NOT pushing the button actually does have very serious, and dangerous repercussions. So, if we are led to believe that the film is real, then this (Orientation transcript from Lostpedia)...

Now do not attempt to use the computer... * ...for anything... *

<Transcript of the spliced clip introduced in "What Kate Did">

...for anything else other than the entering of the code. This is its only function.

The isolation that attends the duties associated with Station 3 may tempt you to try and utilize the computer for communication with the outside world. This is strictly forbidden. Attempting to use the computer in this manner will compromise the integrity of the project and worse, could lead to another incident. I repeat, do not use the computer for anything other than entering the code.

<End of spliced clip.>

has to mean that the incident is directly tied to using the computer for some sort of communication. That is why I came to the conclusion I did.

As for the name of the episode, I don't really give that as much weight as most people. There have been a few other episodes where the title didn't match what was going on in the story.

Offline LostinLock

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Re: NOT the Incident
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2010, 10:49:37 AM »
Hey Bob long time.  Okay I guess my question has always been what outside world?  I mean let us face it at some point Ben blocked the outside world from communication. 

Forgive me for not recalling this at this particular moment in time, but are we sure we really know what the incident is/was?  I know that we had Daniel and the Doc on the video talking about it - but - geesh my head hurts on this one a lot.

I am still going that Radzinsky was given that station as his own personal hell for pushing the drilling to the extent he did.  He was a wild man with a mission and not a good one.  He hated the natives with a passion. 

my two coppers

Offline BobBX542

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Re: NOT the Incident
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2010, 04:20:17 PM »
Hey Bob long time.  Okay I guess my question has always been what outside world?  I mean let us face it at some point Ben blocked the outside world from communication. 

Forgive me for not recalling this at this particular moment in time, but are we sure we really know what the incident is/was?  I know that we had Daniel and the Doc on the video talking about it - but - geesh my head hurts on this one a lot.

I am still going that Radzinsky was given that station as his own personal hell for pushing the drilling to the extent he did.  He was a wild man with a mission and not a good one.  He hated the natives with a passion. 

my two coppers

Hey yourself Lil, well, in my opinion, no, we still don't know what "The Incident" (hereby referred to, by me, in this post, as "Incident A") that was referred to in the Swan Orientation movie was, and that is the sort of what I'm driving at. In my opinion, the bomb going off in the S5 finale (hereby referred to, by me, in this post, as "Incident B") was a reset on the island and that it happened before "Incident A", and we will never find out what "Incident A" actually was. I think that when we get around to finding out about it, we will discover that "Incident B" will be the incident (which might be why the episode is titled thusly), but because it didn't happen due to the computer in the Swan hatch, it is different than "Incident A".

I know it's confusing, but if you read it like 75 more times, it will start to make sense. LOL. Hell, I had to re-re-re-read it while I was typing it. Also, keep in mind, I'm not trying to start a big thing. It just popped into my head, and I want to be ready for the boards when the show starts. Just throwing this out as a discussion. Not trying to convince anyone, or sway any opinions, just throwing that out there.

I don't even have anymore theories about what is going on in the show really, because with a few episodes from last season, all of my big arguements got thrown away when I was proven wrong. LOL. Anyway. Talk at ya.

Offline LostinLock

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Re: NOT the Incident
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2010, 05:31:36 PM »
Hey Bob long time.  Okay I guess my question has always been what outside world?  I mean let us face it at some point Ben blocked the outside world from communication. 

Forgive me for not recalling this at this particular moment in time, but are we sure we really know what the incident is/was?  I know that we had Daniel and the Doc on the video talking about it - but - geesh my head hurts on this one a lot.

I am still going that Radzinsky was given that station as his own personal hell for pushing the drilling to the extent he did.  He was a wild man with a mission and not a good one.  He hated the natives with a passion. 

my two coppers

Hey yourself Lil, well, in my opinion, no, we still don't know what "The Incident" (hereby referred to, by me, in this post, as "Incident A") that was referred to in the Swan Orientation movie was, and that is the sort of what I'm driving at. In my opinion, the bomb going off in the S5 finale (hereby referred to, by me, in this post, as "Incident B") was a reset on the island and that it happened before "Incident A", and we will never find out what "Incident A" actually was. I think that when we get around to finding out about it, we will discover that "Incident B" will be the incident (which might be why the episode is titled thusly), but because it didn't happen due to the computer in the Swan hatch, it is different than "Incident A".

I know it's confusing, but if you read it like 75 more times, it will start to make sense. LOL. Hell, I had to re-re-re-read it while I was typing it. Also, keep in mind, I'm not trying to start a big thing. It just popped into my head, and I want to be ready for the boards when the show starts. Just throwing this out as a discussion. Not trying to convince anyone, or sway any opinions, just throwing that out there.

I don't even have anymore theories about what is going on in the show really, because with a few episodes from last season, all of my big arguements got thrown away when I was proven wrong. LOL. Anyway. Talk at ya.

Wow then I understood kind of sort of.  Yeah i am with you I have all kinds of thoughts in my head but I have a suspicsion it will all be thrown to the wind.

Nice seeing you and i always enjoy your weighing in on these subjects.  Well counting down till we see what they are giong to throw at us

Offline Maxor127

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Re: NOT the Incident
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2010, 08:23:01 AM »
In this case, I think the simplest answer is the correct answer.  Which means, the episode where the bomb goes off is called the Incident, so it's safe to assume that that is the "incident" which they're referring to.  And we can assume the bomb goes off and causes some sort of electromagnetic disturbance which needs to be controlled and monitored with the Swan hatch.  Failure to push the button causes another electromagnetic disturbance, which would lead to another "incident."  Therefore, you have the original incident with the bomb and the second incident with Locke not pushing the button and maybe even other incidents in between that we don't know about.

So I'm going to go with they didn't want anyone using the computer for anything other than entering the code because they didn't want anyone to be influenced into not doing their duty.  It would be nice if there is some bigger reveal though that would lead to someone removing that scene from the film as if they didn't want anyone to see it.

Offline LostinLock

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Re: NOT the Incident
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2010, 09:34:56 AM »
In this case, I think the simplest answer is the correct answer.  Which means, the episode where the bomb goes off is called the Incident, so it's safe to assume that that is the "incident" which they're referring to.  And we can assume the bomb goes off and causes some sort of electromagnetic disturbance which needs to be controlled and monitored with the Swan hatch.  Failure to push the button causes another electromagnetic disturbance, which would lead to another "incident."  Therefore, you have the original incident with the bomb and the second incident with Locke not pushing the button and maybe even other incidents in between that we don't know about.

So I'm going to go with they didn't want anyone using the computer for anything other than entering the code because they didn't want anyone to be influenced into not doing their duty.  It would be nice if there is some bigger reveal though that would lead to someone removing that scene from the film as if they didn't want anyone to see it.
you mean that was simple rofl
 I did understand this but there was one thing that we all might have forgotten.
At least it was in the cobwebbed corner of my mind.
Based on my knowledge of the history of the internet when Dharma was on the island they may have had their own intranet but external communciations would have been limited.  Why would they provied outside communication to a button pusher?  why he couldn't reach his wife, the pc was not really there yet and well, you get my point.  Now by the time Michael showed up to push buttons with our other friends, well, the chances that they were upgrading the intranet and getting them other kinds of services was limited.  they were using dos were they not?

anyway the point the outside world was outside that station, come on they were still giving them shots. okay enough said.   ;D

Offline nomteticus

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Re: NOT the Incident
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2010, 06:07:22 PM »
Why would they provied outside communication to a button pusher? 
Why did God put the apple tree in the garden of Eden?