Astro: So what did you think of tonight's episode?

Sledgeweb: Honestly, through about the first half or two thirds of it, I thought it was pretty lame... and I was recalling our last Talking Lost conversation about the preview for 5x10, and was afraid I was right in fearing it looked bad. But, things really started to pick up when Sayid was interrogated after being drugged. The last couple segments were pretty good, especially the dramatic ending. Still, I'm really thinking we need to get back to Locke ASAP (and now, older Ben as well). Did you like tonight's show?

Astro: eh. not really. I had sorta figured that Sayid was going to go for Ben after last week's preview, and I was hoping there'd be more to it than that. It ended with what I'd hoped would happen near the beginning. I agree that it did pick up after the halfway point, but I wasn't very satisfied with it.

Sledgeweb: Just a quick check on segment results, I think this sums up my impression of the episode. Awful, awful beginning (much lower than anything we've seen thus far), but a really good final two segments.

Astro: yeah, I guess a lot of people didn't pick up on how it would end, or more accurately, didn't read any spoilers before hand. I'm DYING to get clarification on what happened to young Ben. Though with the title of next week's episode, I guess we sort of already know. or do we?

Sledgeweb: So, the big question is going to be, is Ben dead? If 1977 Ben is dead, what happens to 2007 Ben? Are we on an alternate timeline? So, what are possible explanations? or solutions?

Astro: Well, I only see 2 really. Either young Ben is dead, and there are two separate realities (nod to the book in the episode), or this is exactly what has always happened. Perhaps this is why Ben told Sayid, "You're a killer." Perhaps, this is even part of what makes Ben grow up to be so angry and manipulative.

Sledgeweb: So, you don't think, for example, that Jack could save Ben... or at least, not without it having always happened that way?

Astro: right.

Sledgeweb: We have to keep in mind, the Island seemingly has the ability to prevent things from happening that aren't suppose to happen. Michael couldn't kill himself when he was back in New York. He couldn't even shoot himself with a gun. So, perhaps, like you say, Ben being shot is always meant to happen.

Astro: I mean, either Jack saves Ben, or the island does. Maybe Locke wasn't the first person the island brought back to life. Wouldn't that be interesting.

Sledgeweb: It would. I think there are many options, and I still thing maybe things work out differently than they have before, but in a way that allows a course correction. So, maybe Ben wasn't initially shot in the 70's, but now that he has been, the Island simply course corrects and finds a way to heal him. Either through Jack, or some other means. There is always the possibility if we start allowing for changes in the timeline, that someone goes back even further and reverses the made changes. That's why I think it makes the most sense to assume that Ben somehow survives this. Also, if we assume that Sayid has always shot Ben, then we have no paradox to worry about. The problem right now, is people just take it to be a fatal gunshot wound, which it isn't necessarily.

Astro: yeah, I feel pretty sure that he does in fact survive this. You know, this brings up a good point from last week though. There was a lot of talk about how the condition of the barracks, and the building that Sun and Frank went into with Christian looked the way it did because things have in fact been changed.

Sledgeweb: Yes. Well, that gets into where I was heading next. We've sort of covered how things can work out if Ben survives the gunshot. Either healed by Jack, or an Island miracle, reanimated in some way... but what if he is really dead? Is that a possibility? I'm hoping to avoid alternate timelines, but again, is the title of the book a hint, or a red herring? Could we have two alternate universes now? And, almost too much like Back to the Future, we have to travel back to a common point along the timeline to merge these two universes back together?

Astro: Well, I really hope not, but its certainly possible.

Sledgeweb: Yeah, it just would get really messy from there (like it isn't already). I'm kind of hoping to see a Frequency-esque scene where a scar from a bullet wound slowly fades onto 2007 Ben's chest, and all the sudden, he has these new memories of being shot by Sayid... but I don't think there is a high probability of that. It would be sweet though!

Astro: yeah, those are the most unrealistic but dramatically powerful kinds of time travel tricks. lol. I've been sort of thinking for a while now, that Lost is 95% self-contained time travel, and 5% Frequency time travel. So maybe this is it.

Sledgeweb: Maybe. Just had a random thought... the four that Ben wanted brought to the dock, by Michael... Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Hurley... the same four in Dharmaville when he was a kid. Connection? I'm just wondering, how much do we need to look back on things, knowing that Ben has these experiences with the losties as a kid in the 70's.

Astro: well, Jin is then left out. But it does seem very coincidental that he picked those 4.

Sledgeweb: Yeah, forgot about Jin.

Astro: I think, personally, after next week we need to be going back and re-watching every single episode Ben has appeared in up to now.

Sledgeweb: Yes, and maybe recording any clips of him being beaten.

Astro: yeah, a bloody beaten Ben montage would be pretty cool. lol.

Sledgeweb: lol. How about hippie Alpert? We got a "Previously On" throwback to him tonight. So, Alpert always looks the same from the beginning of time, but for a few days in the 70's he said "Guys, that's it, I'm going hippie!"

Astro: yeah, that has always been a bit odd

Sledgeweb: Odd little guyliner.

Astro: So changing subjects slightly, what did you think of Sawyer's actions tonight? He sure is mighty comfortable in Dharmaville, isn't he?

Sledgeweb: Well, I think Sawyer knows they have a good thing going - even if it is headed toward a bad end. Or, maybe he thinks he can change things? Keep the purge from happening? But, how else are they suppose to survive on the island?

Astro: Well, despite Jack, Kate, and Hurley being back, its not exactly as if they know what they're supposed to do. So I guess Sawyer is just trying to keep them safe until they figure it out.

Sledgeweb: Until Sayid screwed it all up. We're still a ways off from the purge though.

Astro: Yeah, if he doesn't die this year I'll be so surprised. Maybe he'll go live with Danielle for a while now.

Sledgeweb: lol, that would be awesome

Astro: they did kind of sort of hit it off after 815 crashed. maybe she was too crazy to remember their love affair together.

Sledgeweb: or, he hooks up with Rose and Bernard, who've built a luxury resort of the other side of the island

Astro: lol. complete with a golf course.

Sledgeweb: of course

Astro: if that's the case, I imagine it will be like that Robin Williams movie...what was it called...Club Paradise of course, probably NOBODY remembers that movie and so that will make no sense to them

Sledgeweb: Yeah, even I don't remember that one.

Astro: lol. nevermind then. There's no hope for me

Sledgeweb: Another thought though... if Sayid has always shot young Ben, it might explain why Ben wasn't too concerned with Sayid getting on the plane. He knew he'd end up back in the 70's anyways. And so, then, we he did see him on the plane, maybe his expression was more of "Neat! Sayid IS on the plane. He will shoot me!" I guess you could make that argument for any of them, but just a thought.

Astro: true. assuming that Ben survives, I can't wait for the day when the 70s losties reunite with Ben in 2007. Locke is going to be SOOO confused. lol

Sledgeweb: lol
Sayid - "Hey, remember that time I shot you when you were 10 years old? LOL! What as I thinking?"
Jin - "Oh yeah, right after knocking me out!"
Sawyer - "Yeah, and I got myself to be sherrif of Dharmaville! LOL! People in the 70's are dumb!"
Locke - "Oh, uh, well, I was in a coffin... and then..."

something like that.

Astro: lol. Exactly. he'll be screaming "BUT I CAME BACK TO LIFE!!"

Sledgeweb: I like to believe that Roger and Jack are going to be BFFs now. Janitors stick together y'know. Also, I have to give props to someone in the live chat, unfortunately I don't remember who, but after Roger threw Ben's food on the floor, someone in live chat said, "But... isn't he just going to have to clean it up now?" I thought that was a great line

Astro: That is an awesome line. lol. Hey, I have a question... in last episode Sun hit Ben over the head with an oar, right? So why, exactly, is he still unconscious when Caesar takes Locke to see him? Does Sun have super-strength or something

Sledgeweb: Yes, Sun with Oar, hit Ben on the head. Well, do we know how long it was after the hitting and Locke seeing him?

Astro: I don't think so. Maybe it was right after. Just seemed odd when I thought back to it just now Do you think Locke is back on next week? Or do we have yet another week without him?

Sledgeweb: I hope he is back, but let's get to next week's episode in a few minutes, want to figure out this timeline... Caesar says that the pilot and sun took off "in the middle of the night" when he is talking to Locke the next morning. Now, as I recall, it was actually daylight when they left... but night when they made it to the other island. But, perhaps they didn't know exactly when they ran off.

Astro: right. And Caesar probably didn't find Ben's body until that night or something

Sledgeweb: yeah, and I don't remember what time of day it is at the end of the episode, when Locke actually sees Ben though.... do you?

Astro: no, but I would say that it is either still morning or mid afternoon. Just a guess. I think it was still light outside.

Sledgeweb: yeah, so he's out for a few hours... i don't think that's a stretch. his body was probably worn out from the beating prior to boarding the plane, then the trip, the crash landing, the new beating by Sun, etc. So, once he was out, maybe he just stayed out for a while. Ok, sidetrack... on the record image from tonight, Oldham's LP record, can you make out what it is? DocArzt is wondering.

Astro: looked to me like it said Victor on the top. can't make out the bottom part. I assumed Victor was the record company or something.

Sledgeweb: Figured out the song, can't figure out the singer. "I can't give you anything but love"

Astro: what song?

Sledgeweb: on the record!! that oldham is listening to...

Astro: check here

Sledgeweb: gene austin then?!

Astro: Benny Goodman released it on Victor Records in 1937 as well

Sledgeweb: sounds female though, are either those female? lol

Astro: Johnny Hamp and the Kentucky Serenaders in 1928. what sounds female?

Sledgeweb: the singer on the record! on lost!

Astro: Grace Hayes released a version in 1928 as well

Sledgeweb: on victor?

Astro: all of those are on victor. and there's more. Grace is the only definitive female sounding name

Sledgeweb: not sure about that one

Astro: lol. I can't believe that's on youtube

Sledgeweb: lol

Astro: seriously, wtf. lol. I don't remember hearing it in lost. Let me go re-listen

Sledgeweb: how many people are listening to this stuff on youtube? some dude 9,000 years old is mastering youtube. it's a more high pitched voice in lost, now i'm leaning toward nat shilkret, if I can find him/her lol

Astro: Nat Shilkret. a man.

Sledgeweb: dang it! The name of the song... it's also a movie. now i feel like this is a challenge

Astro: lol

Sledgeweb: we have a list of VICTOR label recordings of this song. and, i'm 100% positive it is that song.

Astro: yeah, i am as well. this almost sounds like the one on lost. but I don't see Connee Boswell anywhere on that list. Anita O'Day is listed as well, and it doesn't list the record company.

Sledgeweb: doesn't seem high pitched enough. you know whoever put these up has an incredible guilt complex. "I LIKE THE OLD TIMEY STUFF! SCREW YOUR 8-TRACKS AND TOUCHPODS!" (feverishly uploading print out card music to youtube) "IS THIS THE INTERNETS?!"

Astro: lol

Sledgeweb:there are about 10 billion recordings of this song. was it that great? (and I hope sweet ole lady doesn't read this transcript)"Hey! I uploaded those!" lol [just kidding!!]

I was really hoping it was the Judy Garland version, that would have been a nice Oz reference... kind of.

Astro: yeah. are you sure its not Judy Garland? It doesn't list the record company on hers either

Sledgeweb: check this one out. i think that is it. Gogi Grant, she was victor artist.

Astro: yeah, it sounds like it could be her

Sledgeweb: It's on a recent album called The Helen Morgan Story. The Helen Morgan Story? I feel like if we do this for another two hours, we will have unraveled the secrets of LOST, and the universe itself. We will be like our own little Dr. Manahattan's.

Astro: lol. I think we're looking for a needle in a corn field. she did record with RCA which was once RCA Victor

Sledgeweb: ah This says Helen Morgan Story is Victor? But... the year wouldn't be right... right? oh, wait, recorded in 1957. It is also a movie, about a singer (Helen Morgan).

Astro: well, she got the name, Gogi, from Dave Kapp who was a head of ARtists at RCA records which used to be RCA Victor. So it seems like she recorded with them. And you have that link you just sent as well, showing the song, by her, on RCA Victor as well

Sledgeweb: i'm wondering if it is a soundtrack, I just want to find another confirmation for the existence of the album, because that was a footnote. I can only find the CD, would like to find that an actual album existed of the soundtrack. Pretty sure that is it though

Astro: I haven't found anything

Sledgeweb: awww yeah. gots it. And, I just turned blue. look at the vinyl, look familiar?

Astro: no. lol

Sledgeweb: lol. it's what... argh... here. well, close enough. lol

Astro: not the same, but that doesn't mean anything. lol

Sledgeweb: I think that's it

Astro: as do I

Sledgeweb: k, you posting an investigation on it? :)

Astro: I can. If you tell me what we should say about it? lol

Sledgeweb: lol, i dunno. Did Helen Morgan lead an alien colony on a remote island or anything like that?

Astro: let me check

Sledgeweb: You know that logo being different is going to drive me crazy though

Astro: lol

Sledgeweb: Of course, it's probably a gigantic prop error... heads must roll!

Astro: ok, I've confirmed it, she was never in a movie that had anything to do with aliens or time travel or islands. although, her character in Show Boat, the movie she's most known for, is named Julie LaVerne. Sure sounds a lot like Jules Verne. lol. ok, I'm stretching now.

Sledgeweb: every image i can find of that album has the other logo on it.

Astro: well, at least the logo is accurate for the show's time period. lol

Sledgeweb: lol. Well, maybe they did something in the 50's that caused the logo RCA used to be changed! This show pays mad attention to DETAILS!

Astro: lol

Sledgeweb: Ok, let's call that closed. Anything else about tonight's episode to discuss before touching on the preview and then calling it quits?

Astro: nope, nothing here. Except maybe how Oldham looks a little bit like a creepy, older Ben. lol.

Sledgeweb: What was up with that dude? He seemed completely outside of the LOST universe. It was like something from Gilligan's Island instead. "And... over here... is a crazy old hillbilly making moonshine and building a helicopter."

Astro: yeah, it was quite odd. lol. I'm just not sure how some crazy old dude living in a tent and having 2 minutes screen time is important enough to base an episode on. the whole, He's our you thing.

Sledgeweb: Talk about the village outcast. The guy is living in a tepee made of bedsheets or something. Yeah, I wanted someone more awesome to be their me.

Astro: lol.

Sledgeweb: If I was Sayid, I'd be insulted. It did bring back memories of Locke's sweat lodge though.

Astro: lol. Oh yeah! I liked to refer to it as "Locke's Crazy House"

Sledgeweb: lol. Well, too bad Locke never gets to meet Oldham... or maybe he will, they could spend hours talking sweat lodge design.

Astro: exactly. So on to the preview?

Sledgeweb: Sure... Ok, my first related though is about the fire from tonight. What building was on fire? Just someone's house, right?

Astro: looked to me just like someones house. yeah

Sledgeweb: Yah. I'm wondering if the fire spreads though. It's hard to tell from the preview, but we do see some next-day photos of Dharmaville... can't say for certain. But, I had the impression when we saw the processing center, with Christian and Sun, that it had been through a fire. Maybe it was just because it was so smokey... and that wouldn't be it because the fire was 30 years prior, but just something that stood out to me.

Astro: yeah, that seems possible. I don't know though. even if it was the processing center that burned, this is 1977. They've still got a lot of years before the purge. Surely they would have repaired or rebuilt it.

Sledgeweb: If that were the case, it might be more evidence for the alternate timeline theory. Well, not if things were changed and the purge came sooner for whatever reasons. Just playing Devil's Advocate. Anything stand out to you from the preview?

Astro: mostly just Kate saying "we caused this." I'd assume that she's referring to young Ben getting shot. I wonder if she's trying to convince Jack to help or something.

Sledgeweb: Or just, that everything seems to be falling apart now.

Astro: yeah. Other than that, there didn't seem to be a whole lot there. do we know if its a Ben flashback or anything, or is that flat out spoiler material?

Sledgeweb: Seems like a big "whodunit" with everyone being a suspect... especially the new guys perhaps.

Astro: yeah, which doesn't seem all that interesting to me. So I hope there's more to it than that

Sledgeweb: Well, I'm spoiler free for this thus far, so let's leave it at that. So, what do you give this episode overall? As a rating?

Astro: hmmm. I don't know. A 5. Maybe a 6 overall. I get that the end was huge for most people, but it wasn't as big a deal for me, so it made the whole episode a little bit of a downer.

Sledgeweb: Yeah, I'm at 6 or 7, so just slightly ahead of you. I saw that some people really loved it though, so it will be interesting to see where the average falls. I think that I came in expecting to not like it at all, helped.

Astro: yeah, I think the ending saved it from being the lowest rated episode of the season. In fact, I'd say that its my lowest rated episode of this season so far

Sledgeweb: Unfortunately, the previews don't have me excited for next week either. We may be in that short stall period before the finale

Astro: I agree

Sledgeweb: I also have to say, TPTB going with Sayid shooting a kid-Ben... pretty ballsy. I mean, even if it's Ben, shooting kids on TV...

Astro: yeah, I know. And having an Iraqi shoot kids on TV? lol. I mean...come on!

Sledgeweb: lol. Every time he kills someone, he just thinks of that chicken

Astro: well sure. That means its all ok. when Sayid was about ot have sex with that girl (which of course I knew wouldn't happen) I kept thinking, wow, if he does this, he is SOO dead.

Sledgeweb: Yeah, I think we all knew Sayid was in for it... but, it was just a question of how far things would go before she made her move. I mean, you know, there might be other moments, when Sayid is sort of tired and exhausted, and just go willingly...

Astro: lol

Sledgeweb: uh... but, you know, it wouldn't be like that with me... 'cause I'm so intense!

Astro: right. of course

Sledgeweb: "Two minutes in heaven is better than one minute in heaven." (Flight of the Conchords).

Astro: lol. I love that show

Sledgeweb: yes, we'll give it some linkage. Alright, speaking of being exhausted, I think I am so. This thing is going to be a nightmare to edit.

Astro: yeah, it will. the baby will be waking me up in about 30 minutes

Sledgeweb: I'll be doing that in a few months. See you have to plan the babies around LOST.

Astro: no kidding. I didn't do that well, did I

Sledgeweb: You got the timeline messed up

Astro: Well I fired a missile but wasn't sure if it got there before or after I fired it.

Sledgeweb: lol

Astro: and then a dead doctor showed up on my doorstep. but I digress

Sledgeweb: yeah, i don't want to think about that analogy. lol

Astro: oh crap. I didn't even consider the implications of what I was saying. Yeah, we can just edit that out. lol.

Sledgeweb: lol... no... that is staying in! lol

Astro: one of our older readers will be like, "and then the little pervert said....."

Sledgeweb: yeah, the one who is youtubing all the 1920's LPs

Astro: lmao. yep. that's the one

Sledgeweb: that's probably 50% of our users

Astro: probably. okay, I'm out. Good night

Sledgeweb: k, night!