That's awesome lostinwine. I hope they finally get to it, and it's just a note saying something like "Good job Billy! You found it! Ok, your turn to hide something. -James"

Bunnz23 - In reference to your post, both Locke and Ben turned the wheel clockwise and not in two different directions negating your theory of directional movement of the wheel correlated with time travel, whether past or future.

In reference to Boston's chicken or the egg theory and sledgewebs response originally of someone building the well because of the rope hanging out of the ground, check out this link.

http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/OakIsland/story.html

It is eerily similar to what we watched on the show and most of you will find it pretty damn interesting.

This is what I think.. I notice that people are saying that there are two side to the monkey wheel and to be honest I don't know what to think. Could it be two sides or maybe just two separate wheels.

When Ben was on his way to the money wheel he had to go down a ladder which broke bc it was so old. Once he was at the wheel there was a lot of ice and it was cold down there. When he pushed the wheel after chipping away the ice he pushed it to the left(when facing the wheel). Im Guessing that maybe he pushed it the wrong way since he wasn't the one who had to move it in the 1st place since it had to be Locke. Maybe locke had to push it the opposite way and when Ben pushed it to the left it sent the Island in the Past which is why all these flashes are going back so far. When Ben pushed it the wrong way it threw the wheel off the axis causing it to shake and now all the flashes are happening.

When Locke got to the bottom where the wheel is he pushed it to the right maybe sending it back to the future and putting the wheel back in place so when the O6 come back they're won't be anymore flashes. Maybe Ben sent the island in the past which is why there wasn't as much ice in that room when Locke was there. Maybe when Locke moved the Island Forward it brought it to the present time which is 3 yrs after the O6 left the island.

Im not even sure if this makes sense but I've seen stranger things posted on here before...lol

good explanations, zauriel.

I believe that all the time jumps were caused by the wheel being off its axis. This was caused by Ben turning it.
When Locke went to see Jacob, it was told that LOCKE had to turn the wheel. Therefore when Ben tried to be the hero and save Locke, it messed up the island.

What I find strange is that there wasn't any water on the ground or any obvious meltage. Shouldn't there have been a lot of water from the once frozen cave? Why are there icicles at all? Locke didn't seem to react to any cold, of course he did just fall 50 feet and totally killed his leg.

Also, I just got done rewatching this episode, and I have to point out that there is most definitely still ice and icicles all over that cave, including near the donkey wheel. Go watch it again if you doubt the notion. There is ice on the rocky column that you can see when John rests up against it after standing up. And from there you can see various icicles around the wheel area. The only difference here is that there is not such a heavy buildup of ice on the wheel itself that would prevent it from turning (that Ben had to chip away in order to move it).

In regards to whether the jump was forward or backward when the well disappeared, I'm fairly confident in saying it was a jump further back in time, as matahari also indicated. I think this is evidenced quite well by the fact that once Locke drops from the rope and breaks his leg, he looks back up and you can see that there is a rock ceiling above him. That would not be the case if someone simply demolished the well and covered it up with dirt and jungle growth. There would still be a well shaft down to where Locke is at.

As for this whole "other side of the donkey wheel" nonsense, I don't buy it at all. The room is the same as Ben's; I rewatched Ben's scene just to make sure of it. There is definitely still that one rocky column that comes down into the middle of the room. I agree that I am not able to discern any glyphs when Locke is in there, though, which would mean they were etched in after that time period and well after the donkey wheel's creation. The wheel is not that large either, and the light emanates from the other side, so if that wasn't the same side as Ben was on, then the light would be coming from seemingly nowhere, and we know that there is definitely "exotic matter" down there that the wheel interacts with. I think we can shoot down the "other side" theory right now.

I agree that I don't think Dharma destroyed the well; they simply located the energy source and did their best to drill near it, as evidenced in season 5's opener. But after witnessing what happened to the drill bits and the worker, they didn't drill any further into the donkey wheel cave, but just being near it was enough for them to be able to run their time travel experiments with the bunnies. I doubt Dharma knew about the hidden entrance that Ben accessed by blowing a hole in their experiment chamber. I really doubt anyone from Dharma ever made it to the donkey wheel cave.

What I find most interesting is that despite being in a past time period, Christian was still present and knew Locke and everything; he was not a past version of Christian/Christian's ghost. This leads me to believe that the only people who don't move in time with the island are those who are native to it, like Richard. Though we haven't seen them, it's reasonable to believe that all of the Others who were brought to the island have also been traveling through time, as well as those that the Others had with them (think Cindy the airline attendant and the children, who we last saw traveling with the others and who were instructed to go to the Temple -- perhaps they were inside of it already even when Jin was there to witness the smoke monster rip off that guy's arm?).

Why does the wheel need to be fixed? Because I believe the wheel, like the Losties and Christian, also travels in time as it is the focal point for the time travel. After Ben moved it, the movement of the island dislodged it from its track, and this I believe is what is causing the skips in time. We already know about course correction, and Christian said that Locke had to move the island, not Ben -- so when Ben did move it, course correction set in, making the island skip so that Locke would come find the frozen donkey wheel and turn it, which is what was supposed to happen in the first place.

I was thinking about who could have hidden the well shaft and I don't think it was Dharma at all. They were able to trace the energy above ground somehow and built the orchid adjacent to the wheel. But if they had buried the shaft then that would have meant they new what was down there. Why not build directly over the shaft? Why try drilling through solid rock to get to the source if they had access to it already? My guess is that it was hidden by the others once Dharma came to the island. they must have known what a bunch of scientists were doing there.

Here's a link to Sledge's investigation of Ben turning the wheel:
http://lost.cubit.net/archives/2008/05/4x13-glyphs-on-frozen-wheel.php

Matahari, I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around your timeline, though (based on the above ground scenes) you seem to be correct.

But why, then, does Locke have to fix the wheel at that time in the seemingly very distant past?

Or could it be centuries in the future? Either way, it seems very far removed from current events.

How does the wheel relate to the Swan's button?Are we back in the four-toed time? Was this the beginning of civilization, or the end of the four-toed civilization? AHHHHH!!!

They both pushed to the right, so they wouldn't be pushing against each other.

I think the Losties did come across something like a rope sticking out of the ground before (no, not the cable).

Re: Time on island--
-Orchid Station there when Ben moves the wheel. FLASH
-Orchid station dilapidated when Juliet says [What are the odds this would be here when we are?] Sawyer--"You had to say something." FLASH
-Well appears. Locke crawls down. FLASH
-Well covered, but no ruins or dilapidated Orchid station.
I think they went back in every FLASH.
FIN

I don't think they could be pushing from either side at the same time because on the "other side" the wheel is frozen in place.

lol just an even further fetched idea to comment on what if this os just one side of the wheel... what if at the same time that locke is pushing the wheel that ben is pushing on the other side??? but im sure they are both pushing counter productive to ech other .. ill have to watch it again, but thatd be bad ass.

theres never been mention of a rope out of the ground ever on the show... it doesnt seem to far fetched that whatever the lostie jumpers are holding come with them... think of their clothes, belts, shoes... Lockes knife... its a possibility... that whatever that has happened has already happened but we;ve also seen and heard of the concept of course correcting... if they do somethign one way.. another way will be presented to put it back on track...

Didn't one of the Losties come across a rope just sticking out of the ground in an earlier episode?

Sledgeweb, its sort of a "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" thing, except maybe the chicken that laid the egg is actually in the egg itself... ;)

I just watched the clip again, and after the flash it looks like the jungle around Sawyer, Juliet, Miles etc. is overgrown. So, did the jungle overgrow the depleted Orchid Station, or is it native jungle that hasn't been disturbed by anybody yet?

I don't see any glyphs on the surrounding rocks like in the finale last year. Maybe they can be seen in another shot. Otherwise, I am inclined to say that this IS only half of the wheel.

Yep, thinking the ice and cold where there originally because the wheel had not been used in some time.. Once the wheel was activated it released energy warming the cave and melting the ice... just a thought

BostonTom, that's a crazy thought isn't it? That the donkey wheel is originally discovered when someone finds a rope in the ground and starts digging... of course, the rope was put there only after the well was built. Ahhh... the joys of time travel...

I think there are actually some icicles along the walls of the cave, but not any on the wheel because the energy melted them as the wheel was spasing out.
But it is interesting that you say maybe this is only one half of the wheel.

So what ever they're holding stays with them in time..
I'm thinking they jumped to the future or Locke would be stuck in the ground, not at an ancient donkey wheel.

What if the last time jump moved them to a time before the well? In that scenario, the rope sticking out of the ground would be sort of a marker as to where the donkey wheel is below ground, and where the well should be built "in the future". Just a thought...

Can we get a comparison shot of the FDW cave? I am thinking maybe there are two sides to a FDW? Just doesn't look like the same as Ben's.

Well timeline - Charlotte, who was on the island as a youngster, knew about the well. During a time flash, the Orchid disappears, but the well appears, seeming to indicate that the well predates Dharma. The 'architecture' of the columns seems in line with the temple, but some people in fairly modern (post-temple/glyph) time also knew about it, hence the 'modern' rope and pulley. Since the time jumps haven't gone back any earlier than the 1950's, I am assuming that the last time jump, where Sawyer was left holding the rope, was to a current time, and that Dharma had removed the well and columns to conceal the wheel chamber, in which case - how did Charlotte know about the well?

The well and the donkey wheel are not frozen cold here - compare as to when Ben moved the island (4x13), there were icicles hanging everywhere - here there are none, and Locke doesn't show any reaction to the temperature, whereas Ben had to wear a parka. Also, it was very difficult for Ben to move the wheel, but very easy for Locke.

Ah, c'mon, show his busted leg!

I really need to go back and watch this again. I missed at least 5 minutes which ended up being a lot.