I keep reading folks commenting about how Widmore may have moved the island once before and thats why he cannot return. But at the beginning of the season we see Dr.Chang getting ready to make a new recording when they break in and tell him there has been some issues with the drilling. I imagine this happens AFTER the Jughead episode since they now have their nice village all set up. But most important is that the donkey wheel is still blocked up behind the stone walls they were trying to drill through.

Which isn't to say that Widmore may not have found an alternate way in, or that using it causes it be be blocked again. In the LOST-iverse, anything is possible.

I was just watching Jughead again and had a small revelation concerning Widmore just handing over Faraday's mother's address so quickly to Desmond. I think that it is becoming clear to Widmore that Ben is involved with Hawking and he can now have people follow desmond to find Ben. Because Ben did say that he would kill Widmore's daughter (Penny). So if Desmond finds Hawking, he finds Ben, and Ben finds Penny most likely.

I think that Richard has a direct connection to the island and/or Jacob. I bet that Jacob/the island is keeping him around so he can recruit new leaders when they're needed. He almost always seems to know what to do and is definitly more honest than Ben ever was.

Well, Richard's the only Other that's stayed on the island (as far as we know, that is...)

Oh, and AstroJones? Yet again... wow. You're good. :-)

jmm635, it doesn't ever seem like Richard wants to be leader.. Even when Ben's leadership started faltering, he seemed more concerned with prepping locke for the job than trying to steal the spotlight for himself.
The other thing that bugs me is widmore aged.. Daniel's mom (if that's her) has aged.. Richard seems to be the only other that has this miraculous power to stay young..

Maybe when Richard met young Locke and gave him the test he wasn't upset because Locke didn't choose the compass. Perhaps he was upset because Locke CORRECTLY did NOT choose the compass because it in fact does not belong to him, it belongs to Richard. Richard could be upset because he knows that Locke will eventually become the leader of the Others (as told to him a few years earlier by Locke) and the position of leader will not go to Richard. He seems to have been passed over for the position a few times and he might be a little pissed.

This is in response to Prof. Farnsworth's paradox comment...

Actually, there is not yet a paradox. You're making assumptions that we know the whole story of the compass, but in Lost that is hardly ever the case. There are many possibilities that would keep this from being a paradox. For example...and this is just one possibility...

What if the compass was manufactured pre-1954, and at some point in his life, Richard purchased the compass. It was very dear to him for some reason we never know. Then, in 1954 this strange bald dude shows up and shows Richard an exact duplicate of the compass he has right in his pocket. He's confused and doesn't want to give this stranger too much information, so he doesn't mention the compass in his pocket at all. Instead, he takes the duplicate from the strange man, and keeps it safe.
Later, he visits the man, Locke was his name, being born and again when he's older, he shows him the compass that the older Locke had given him. Even more years later, he comes to Locke's aid at the Beechcraft and helps him with his bullet wound. Finally realizing the significance of the events in question, he gives Locke the original compass, the one he had in his pocket all these years, and tells him to give it to Richard (himself) the next time he sees him. Locke vanishes and Richard wanders off into the jungle with the "duplicate" compass he received from John Locke in 1954.

Bingo. No paradox. Now granted, this version has its own assumptions...mostly that the writers of Lost are as creative as I am (or actually as the friend who told me this). But it does highlight how there technically isn't a paradox yet. There could be! But not yet. :)

Prof. Farnsworth said:

"1990something (shortly after Eko's bro crashed on the island): Richard gives compass to Locke "

Actually, no. That timeline ended right as Ethan was about to kill Locke. The next time-jump put them back in the present/future, post-Swan implosion, and that's when Richard gave Locke the compass. The Richard on the island during the Nigerian plane crash wouldn't have known Locke because Locke hadn't crashed on the island yet. Richard knew that the O6 had gotten safely back home (how though I wonder) and told him that the next time Locke would see him, Richard wouldn't recognize him. He obviously knew from his own memories that Locke gave him the compass in 1954 and then vanished in front of his eyes, so he was all up to speed on Locke's time-traveling by the time Locke actually crashed in 2004. Richard definitely doubted things when young Locke didn't chose the compass, but once he saw Locke on the island after the crash, it was obvious he no longer had those doubts and that's why he was so eager to prepare Locke to be leader of the Others during Season 3.

I think the timeline with young Widmore vs. Ben can work - seems to me that they're trying to portray Widmore in 1954 as a young man in his early 20's or maybe even 18-19. That would put him at about 70 something in the present. Seems like it works.

I would not be happy with a windmore out for revenge on Ben plot. I'm hoping there's much more to the story when all is revealed.

the compass was not johns, and the reason richard was mad when he went to test him was becasue john was telling him the truth in 1954 about richard giving him the compass. so the compass was not an item john owned.

First post Losties (be gentle)...

I've wanted to post numerous times in the past, but this widmore thing has finally brought me around.

I'm thinking this:
Widmore, Eloise, Richard and someone else (perhaps Ben but maybe not) are all on the island when the oft talked about "incident" happens or is about to happen.

Someone (again Ben is a likely candidate) tricks Widmore and Eloise into moving the island. Once gone, they realize they have been tricked and begin their search back to the island.

Widmore thinks he has a calling to the island (perhaps he can also hear Jacob), but is not truly a leader [too rash, perhaps?] and therefore is passed over.

Thus Widmore begins his search to get back on the island and the war with Ben (and perhaps someone else begins).

The reason I think there is someone else involved and not just Ben is the timeline doesn't make sense (widmore is grown in 1954 and Ben arrives on the island as a child in the 70's, when brought by his dad.

Ben also knows a complex way to get back to the island (which is what he is trying to do), but Widmore does not know this secret and thus spends millions following leads around the globe to get back. Of course if he can capture Ben (Keamy's task) then he can also find a way to get back to "his" island.

"Don't you think Widmore had Desmond tailed to find his duaghter? Or to ultimately track back to the island?"

No. For the same reason he never asked Desmond where Penny was - only "is she safe". He wants Desmond to keep Penny away from him and well hidden. After all he had Ben's daughter killed and Ben has threatened revenge on him for that. He knows that if Ben could find Penny, he would kill her just to hurt Widmore.

Of course he probably didn't realize that Ben was in LA with Faraday's mother. And now Penny has decided to go to LA with Desmond, which means Ben will have his chance soon.

Anyone else think Penny is not long for the world? And what will Desmond do if that happens? If he kills her before he returns to the island with the "O6" and Locke's body, will Desmond end up going back to the island to go after Ben?

this was my favorite part of the episode!

""""lostfromthestart said:
And good catch on the compass NOT belonging to Locke in his childhood test.""""

Which brings us to the Paradox of the Compass. Who does the compass belong to?

1950something: 21st century Locke gives compass to Richard

1950something + 2-6 years: Richard tests Locke and asks if the compass belongs to Locke. Richard keeps the compass when Locke doesn't choose it.

1990something (shortly after Eko's bro crashed on the island): Richard gives compass to Locke

Since Locke gave the compass to Richard and Richard gave the compass to Locke, it's a paradox.
There can't be any 'original owner' Uh Oh. Hate them paradoxes.

I find it strange that Widmore gave Desmond the adress of Farraday's mother as quickly as he did.

I wonder if he is aware of the calculations being done and the need to have all the Oceanic 6 together to be able to go back to the island.

He might be watching events closely in order to find a way back to the island himself.

Hi y'all, this is my first post, so be gentle...I was confused by the name tag on Widmore's uniform, too, but Richard said that he and his people found the U.S. military there and took over the camp. Could be the Others are wearing the military's clothing too. We know they like to wait until new people come in and set up camp before purging them and taking over all the shiny new stuff.

I'm banking on Widmore being Faraday's father too. Thus being the reason he funded his work,...aside from trying to get back to the island.

Yes, congratulations to the person/people who predicted this. I was so shocked by this, because I thought that if Widmore were on the island, he would have been wearing his own name on his uniform, because he's that cocky and arrogant.

Excellent physical similarities, and they both act like pompous asses!!

Don't you think Widmore had Desmond tailed to find his duaghter? Or to ultimately track back to the island?

And good catch on the compass NOT belonging to Locke in his childhood test. But it always seemed out of character for Richard to give up so easily when Locke picked the knife. He backed out of that situation so fast it made your head spin, assuming it was a mistake. Richard is more level-headed than that, so this was an area that he really didn't understand well yet. But who would?

All I have to say is Kudos to those who called this last week in saying that Jones was Widmore -- I totally didn't think that possible! Arrrrghhh! (To be fair, I thought that Locke had killed him, but still...)

Excellent casting job. Seeing those two photos side-by-side, it's an amazing resemblance. Ear shape isn't quite right but everything else is dead on!

I like your thoughts, AstroJones. I agree that young Widmore doesn't seem like leader-potential. Also excellent thought about the compass not technically being Locke's to begin with...

One of the best lines of the night: Jones/Widmore saying "So you think there's somebody out there who knows this island better than me?" (Cut to Locke...) ROFL!

I agree 100% with NorthShoreOGLost. Even before reading his comment that was the first thing that came to mind-both wanted to become leaders but for some reason Ben was picked over Charles==>Charles pissed off at Ben==>Charles wants island to himself==>Charles gains power in some forbidden way or does something bad and wants to control all.

Sheesh, look at those two pics - they did an amazing job matching up those two actors to almost look like a perfect match!

Judging by young Widmore's temperament and attitude in this episode, I can easily see this playing out with him being bypassed in favor of Ben being chosen as leader and fallout ensuing that leads to him being gone from the island in some way. He seems to be very eager to emphasize his worth and authority at just about every chance he gets. Also, he said something about his superior knowledge of the island in a way that was like he was trying to assert his entitlement to something when he was trying to convince Richard that Locke would not be able to track him back to the camp.

I like what still_lost said too. I always thought about that, especially in that scene from last season where Ben and Widmore go head-to-head. And I also remember Ben accusing Widmore of "changing the rules"... so there's a lot to think about here. Leader or not, Widmore's spent a fortune trying to find the island and Ben trying to hide it. It's an interesting dynamic to think Widmore as/is an other.

I think you're on the right track Still_lost. However, I'm not convinced after tonight's episode that Widmore was ever their leader. I think that maybe he wanted to be or thought he should be, but wasn't actually. He just doesn't seem the type.

What if Widmore used to be in Ben's place and had to move the island and as a result could never come back? Perhaps he feels that it is still his to protect/rule over. I've actually been thinking of this for some time but until now I wasn't sure if Widmore had really been an other.

Hey Lottery Ticket, here's something to chew on....

Young Locke failed the test because Richard asked him to pick the items that belong to him. It seemed that Locke didn't pick the compass, but picked the knife instead. Richard was expecting him to pick the compass, because 2 years earlier, on tonight's episode, Locke gave Richard that compass. From Richard's perspective, that compass was Locke's and if a Young John Locke was "special" he should have known that. Only that compass wasn't Locke's. Richard was mistaken. A future Richard gave Locke that compass to begin with, so technically it was never Locke's compass.

So I ask you...Did Locke actually fail the test? Or did Richard have the wrong answer? And perhaps further in the future, when 815 crashes, Alpert begins to see the error of his past decisions.

Alpert made the comment, "we have a particular way we choose our leaders." which seems to indicate that he (Alpert) is not the leader in 1954 ish, but the person who seeks out leaders (trip to young John). Young John failed the test. That would mean he is not a leader. Unless he can change his past.

But on to Widmore. At what point does he become the leader? It was seem that they are chosen young. Did Widmore get the 'test'? If you chose correctly, then you go to leader school and learn Latin?

When you graduate, they give you a gun and say 'cut off arms and legs' to anyone who finds the island?

This might be too weird for me.

All that has happened before, will happen again...

The question now is, why did he leave and why does he think the island is his.

I wonder if he rose to become the leader of the Others and Ben replaced him and kicked Widmore off the island.