That's an interesting concept, however I feel that it is unlikely considering how tall the island is and how quickly it disappeared, especially as there was only a little ripple in the water. Also, there are a lot of things that happen in LOST that are impossible as far as we know (e.g Smokey, the island's healing nature, Ben's "magic box" etc...) but they still happen, so why can't time-travel just be added to this list?

By the way, talking of Ben's "magic box", did anyone notice his expression when Locke asked about it in the finale? - priceless! I think he's very much regreting inventing that metaphor!

The consensus seems to be time/space is the most likely explanation for the island moving. Feyguy expands on this theme further with a very reasoned analysis which leads to... more confusion.

While the time shift model I presented earlier seems just as valid as any other theory, let me present another possibility - just for fun.

I'll call this the, "Silly Rabbit, Tricks Are For Kids" theory.

Ben tricked Sawyer into thinking he implanted a pacemaker once. There was a bunny in that scene too. So let’s say bunnies are a red-hearing for what's not scientifically moral or real.

Time travel is impossible as far as we know, so the whole time/space thing is out the window. So what happened?

Well, the island is right where it was - just submerged! Consider this:

There's plenty of submarine references in the past.

Ben and Locke take a slow elevator ride down a deep shaft. Could the hint be any more obvious?

Ben falls down (in the frozen room).

The fake 815 is on the bottom of the ocean.

When the island comes up, it catches whatever is on the surface above it - like the Black Rock.

In the helo, Jack refers to the "other island", where he lived in the shark tank - under water.

The Looking Glass was under water.

Dharma stations have water-proof doors, why?

And on and on.

So there's plenty of references to living under water and "going down". Of course, this opens up all kinds of other questions which I'll leave you to ponder. Good luck.

I think people need to remember that the Island in LOST is actually some sort of ancient city or perhaps even some type of craft. The craft theory works for me on the level that we have all seen the four toed statue and it was an awesome and mysterious plot device. when it was first introduced it held little relevance but now I believe it to be a major clue about the Island and its history. If you combine the four toed statue with all the ancient egyptian symbols you get the idea that perhaps very long ago the Island had a specific purpose that was KNOWN and UTILIZED. Just like in the Swan and elsewhere on the Island, this ancient understanding of the technology and properties of the Island is what I think Dharma was explicitly studying. They just built their facilities ON TOP of the ancient ones...both to hide their true function and to create a facade for research. Now why would Hanso do that? Maybe the truth of the Island is too precious and perhaps even dangerous. Shambala, the garden of eden, etc. Someplace sacred maybe? SomeTHING sacred? Hmm...

Either way, when Sawyer and Kate were prisoners Ben had them working on digging up "something" pretty big. There were more than a handful of Others digging as well. This seems to point again to either ancient lost city or some kind of craft, that Ben and the Others are trying to "reveal" or get into. I guess the real question for the show is whether the TECHNOLOGY of LOST will turn out to be sci-fi, like aliens from the future or whether it will be ancient and unknown like Atlantis. There seems to be some truth that the ancients also created facades over the Islands true technology...so in that way there is a double disguise of the true nature of the Island going on. The actual physical nature of the Island and its plants, water and trees seem to be just a manifestation of time and purpose of what the Island truly is.

I am thinking that the strangest thing about the show is that the Island itself seems to communicate on various levels and in different ways with the people who live there. I don't think it is all just supernatural Jacob behind everything. The Island is a character and at some point they will probably reveal why and how that is.

anyway, the island does not have to necessarily float. lets say it was the very top of a lost and ancient city that was under the water and not accessible...yet. that city itself may be able to teleport about and thus the Island can too. I am betting on an Atlantis/Shambala angle to the whole show...if only to explain the facades that hide the technology...Dharma created the Orchid station but they did *not* build the wheel, someone else did and they did it for a specific reason. I think Dharma knows a lot more than we think...

I agree with smokey_is_king but I think Austruck is not just referencing an old time travel movie but also touching on a physical law apparently at work in the show. The Orchid Comic-con video that A Better Tomorrow referenced (the one where a second copy of rabbit #15 appears while filming, I believe) revealed that LOST holds to the principle that matter from the future cannot come into close proximity with the same matter in the past, or something terrible will happen.

This and other factors have caused me to change my mind about the island. I had thought that Ben's turning of the Dharma wheel placed the island into a time warp but that it would hold its geographic position--maybe even swapping time/space with the matter occupying the time/space to which it was destined. My main objection was that the island could not be gravitationally stable in another geographic location unless it is a floating island, which I did not want to believe. Without rehashing that discussion, suffice to say there is evidence that the island does float. So, it makes sense that the island has moved in space and perhaps, though not necessarily, time.

Evidence for spatial shift:
1. Orchid orientation video acknowledges experimentation in time AND space.
2. Ben told Widmore he'd never find it (the island).
3. The island existed in the past and would exist in the future, so it could not travel in time without also travelling in space or there would be a catastrophic conflict of coincident matter (sounds like a real scientific term, doesn't it?).

Evidence against temporal shift:
1. Assuming the island exists in the past and future, time travel would result in two islands, making it twice as likely that Widmore would find "it."

Okay, after writing all that, I'm even more confused. I liked the idea of a temporal shift in consciousness--like what Desmond experienced--but I am having trouble suspending my disbelief in the idea of matter traveling through time. My wife has already given up on the show and I'm afraid the show will lose me too. I am worried that all this exciting build-up is leading to a ridiculous and disappointing conclusion. Does anyone else share my fear?

As much as I value this different in-sight into time travel, I feel we should be careful when making comparisons with other shows/films that have similar concepts. Remember that Lost isn't Back to the Future, and just because BTTF was made first doesn't mean that it's the law by which all other shows should abide by. In other words, if Lost came before BTTF, would we now be debating why the land under McFly's feet didn't also move, just like the island?!

Also, I seem to remember a podcast by producers Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse around about the time Heroes was released, which too addresses time travel, and they made it very clear that they would not necessarily be following any of its writers views, or others, on the subject.

However, it is still an interesting comparison and has definately made me think a lot more about it, I just think we should be prepared to see something completely new when Lost reveals what's really going on.

This is all well and good, but the one element of the shift-in-time theory that no one's addressing is this: Sure, Marty McFly seems to zap into nowhere because he's changed times -- but that's because he goes to a time where he either doesn't exist yet or where he is currently in a different spot on the planet.

How does that same principle apply to a solid PLACE like an island? I mean, Marty is a human being and can therefore move about the planet at will. But even when McFly moves in time and seems to disappear, the land under his feet is still there.

The only way this would make sense is if the island was created in some way such as a volcanic eruption (that is, it literally WASN'T there at some semi-recent point in time and now it is). But we've seen no evidence of there being a volcano on the island (although that might explain Smokey as volcanic ash, ha ha).

I realize this is all speculative anyway, but so far Lost hasn't stretched the limits of their own internal logic, at least. If the island is "merely" moving in time, I'd like a better explanation of why we saw it blip out of existence completely instead of just seeing the island in a different state of "present time," much the way Marty McFly's housing development changed depending on what decade it was.

There's a better case for the island moving in time than space. In this case, it's still there. It's gone from "present time" or the time occupied by the helicopter and the Zodiac. The perspective shown on-screen was what happened when the "shift" occured.

In "present time" the island disappeared - moved in time, but in reality it's just slightly ahead in time. There was another shift at the end of S2 when Desmond activated the fail-safe. Remember the sky turned purple then too?

In that scene, we saw what the shift looked like from the inside - on the island.

At the end of S4, we saw the shift from the outside looking in - from off the island.

If you're on the island, everything looks the same after the shift. You cannot see that you have moved in time.

If you're off the island, poof - it's gone.

This would explain the gap in time from when Daniel's rocket was launched but arrived at two different times.

There was another reference to "time traveling bunnies" in the finale and we actually saw a time traveling bunny appear in the Orchid Comic-con video. After the bunny appeared, the frightened scientists were screaming about where the shift was set. I think it's clear now that this refers to shifting time.

You know what this reminds me of....Back to the Future.
When the Delorean hit 88 MPH, it disappeared in time and space, only to reapear 'when' the coordinates were set to. However, for Marty or Einstein, it was instantaneous.
By Ben spinning the Dharma wheel, he achieved 88MPH, he transported it to another time (whenever it is set to) making the island disappear for everyone looking at it, except for the people on it.
Any thoughts?

You may be right smokey_is_king.

I wonder why Daniel seemed almost complaisant with the wishes of those who decided to stay on the island--especially Charlotte, who he loves. At first, he seemed adamant that the island be evacuated because they were all in danger but then he backed off at the first sign of resistance. Why is he not more forthright with what he knows and what exactly does he know? Perhaps he simply did not want to create a panic.

I agree with you on the most part there feyguy, however I think it'd be slightly out of character for Daniel to choose not to help any possible survivors of the exploded boat. I think that Daniel and the zodiac were either far enough away from the island that we'll see them searching amongst the wreckage of the boat at the start of season 5 (and perhaps find Jin still alive), or they were caught within the island's teleportation field and moved as well, but unwillingly so.

Devwild, I think you are probably right about the island floating and good point about the Orchid's greenhouse being elevated. The Mystery Tales comic book cover did show a floating island in the clouds. Though not in the clouds, that was probably a clue that the island floats.

As for Daniel and his zodiac passengers, I recall a previous post involving a Schwarzchild black hole, which Dan's Orchid notes appear to reference. Effects on time/space are relative to an observer's proximity to the singularity. Dan is a smart S.O.B. with a thorough understanding of theoretical physics. He probably calculated where he needed to be in reference to the island in order to land himself in a specific time and place when the island moved. Perhaps this explains why the people on the chopper never spotted the zodiac.

Last time the island jumped time, they ship wrecked the black rock, this time maybe an aircraft carrier. That would be entertaining... the Lost Boys fighting the US Navy.

That's a good question smokey. I think that they will reappear with the island though.

I don't think the island just moved in time, because then Widmore could find it again. It had to also move in space.

Haha, just re-read that - "it simply moved in time" - yeah, because time-travel is so simple!

Lost_Is_My_Favourite - that was the first thing that entered my head when I watched the island disappear - it did not physically move to another location, it simply moved in time. So this would explain how the Black Rock got to be where it is - it was occupying the same space where the island reappeared (presuming the island has been moved before).

However, my question is this: What's happened to Daniel and the people on the zodiac? You clearly see them looking at the blinding light before the island disappears, but then nobody from the helicopter seems to notice them in the big open ocean after the island has moved.

The orchid may not actually be underground, so much as it may be under the main mass of the island. If the island is floating, it could just be a protrusion underneath the island where some control mechanism/engine/whatever is housed (also, I doubt it was much deeper than the island is tall, the elevator moved rather slowly).

As for the metal objects, that seemed to be more of a warning about the microwave like effect that happened when ben filled the space with junk - which they would also want to avoid the scientists from doing, because the damage revealed the true nature of what was behind the chamber. Small amounts of metal scattered around the island would probably be more inconsequential, and may, in fact, have taken damage in the jump, but we won't know that until next season.

As for the lack of a bigger wave, honestly I'd say that was probably more of a production decision than anything, though we have no real indication of how much mass was below the water level. Even hollow mountains filled with helium would not account for the island's buoyancy, so it's probably artificially supported, perhaps by one of those mystical magnetic fields.

After seeing the wheel and island behavior in this episode, combined with past hints, I'm inclined to believe that the island is actually some form of ship of unknown origin, which became an island only after thousands of years of buildup of debris. It has been inhabited and even moved by many generations of humans who discover (or are drawn to) it over the years, which is why there are so many strange artifacts around. The more advanced technologies on the island like the monster are based on what was found on the island and used by the inhabitants. The Dharma initiative was just one generation, which chose to use the island for research after disguising the true nature of the findings there. The actual research was on human behavior, based on the Valenzetti equation stuff, which may have actually been the result of some discovery on the island regarding the future (if not the end of mankind, maybe something more selfish they wanted to change).

Or maybe that's just what they want us to think ;)

Perhaps whatever mechanism was used to move the island also moved the matter occupying its destination in a sort of time/space swap. The island warps to a new time/space and the matter occupying the space there warps to the island's original time/space. I can think of no other reason why the island's disappearance caused just a mere ripple. Any other theories?

See, that's what's good about these blogs devwild. I forgot about the sea level rise. I'm forgetting a lot as of late. I just might have to go back and watch the first four seasons again while we wait for Season 5.

One contradiction though--I think the writers wanted to make the point that the real Orchid station is very deep in the ground because they had Locke ask Ben how deep it was when they were on the elevator. (I wonder if it was the depth that made the ice cave so cold or if it was that negative energy or whatever.) So, if it is very deep and wasn't left behind when the island moved, then we should have seen a huge in-rushing wave, as you say, regardless of whether the island jumped space and/or time and was fixed or floating.

Another thing--the orientation video indicated that only biological material could be placed in the time warp chamber and that under no circumstances should metallic objects be placed inside. Then, apparently the same mechanism was not used to move the island, which consists of minerals (rock). Plus, the various hatches are all metallic but they weren't left behind.

feyguy, I'm pretty sure the island does float - remember that it sunk at the beginning of the series, far enough to drag the plane out to sea.

This would also (partly) explain why the water filling in the space wasn't overly dramatic - if that much land vanished from the ocean strait down to the sea floor, the in-rushing wave would have been much larger - and 2004 would have seen another massive tsunami (and maybe another when it reappears) a few days after the first (unless there's more time mangling going on and it caused it anyway, but, with penny's appearance after the call on xmas eve, that doesn't really jive)

I also noted the reappearing rabbit hint in the orientation video and agree with Lost_Is_My_Favorite. I think the island reappears in the same spot in the future. I think moving the island geographically is too much of a stretch. The only way that could work is if the island floats--perhaps via the magnetic anomaly--because it would be virtually impossible to land the island in another precise location where the ocean floor is at the proper depth and geometry for the island to be stable.

As to why, perhaps in part Jacob needed to get rid of Ben. Recall that Ben said, "Whoever moves the island can never come back," and while he was turning the Dharmacakra (the wheel - see ashaver's and BrianIsLost2's posts in 4x13: More Glyphs), he looked up and said, "I hope you're happy Jacob." It seems Jacob has tapped Locke to be Ben's replacement.

Also, I am wondering--despite dialogue to the contrary--if certain Losties were actually supposed to leave the island in order to help direct the course of events leading up to the island's reappearance in the future. Take Sun and Desmond for example. Both are connected to Widmore--Sun through her father's business dealings and Desmond through Widmore's daughter Penny. Also, Ben seems to need Sayid's help taking out Widmore's people. They're all supposed to go back but I wonder if Jack is the only one who never should have left.

If none of them were supposed to leave, then why didn't Christian instruct Locke at Jacob's Cabin to ensure that everyone was on the island before they moved it? Also, consider that Christian's appearance to Michael just before his death implied that Michael's purpose was to keep the C4 from exploding just long enough to put the Oceanic 6 in the air when the island disappeared. After telling Michael, "You can go now," why didn't he then go to the Orchid to stall Ben until the chopper returned unless the people on the chopper were not supposed to return yet. I suppose he could be a bad guy working against Jacob and the Island but he doesn't strike me that way.

andjel, the immediate danger was gone, but not all of it. Widmore found the island once, what would stop him from going back again?

wow

okey, it was nice to see the island move, but what's the point. what did jacob gain from it? the danger was gone either way

Lost_Is_My_Favorite.... I think you're onto something

Im no expert but wouldnt an event like this create an enormous tsunami or giant waves or something

I could be totally wrong, but I believe in the orientation video of The Orchid station, the Doc said that the bunny "disappears" for a segment of time. Or something to that affect. Could this mean that the island disappears, but really didn't "move" at all, and reappears in a specific amount of time?

Well ya'll didn't think it was just gonna float away did ya? SOmething stupendous had to happen. It was the Season FInale.

Believe it or not...After watching the first part of the finale two weeks ago with a group of friends, and seeing the previews for part 2, after Locke said to Jack, "Wait until you see what I'm gonna do!", I said I bet Locke goes in the Orchid and gets on a big hamster wheel to move the island. Of course, I was just joking.

Either Dharma were masters in their craft or that's a man-made island.
Why blow a hole in the wall to get to the frozen donkey wheel though? It had ladders and a lantern, so there's been access. To destroy the bunny jumper seemed odd.

I think that was perfect! Just winked out of existence. Last time the moved it, they shipwrecked the black rock.. wonder what they will encounter wherever they moved it this time

That was such a "HOLY CRAP!!" moment!!

Wow, not even a burp!!! The ripples are even little!!!