Do you guys remember what happened to Ray? The doctor on the freighter that Keamy killed and threw overboard? Well, he washed up on the island long before he was killed on board the Kahana.

If they are going to bring Jin back (and I'm 99% sure that they will), then this would be the coolest way to bring him back.

NattieG said: That got me thinking, do we really know that Christian ever was REALLY dead?

In the first season, we see a flashback of Jack identifying his body, so barring a pretty big intentional cover-up, he's dead.

ffingers made this comment:
"the fact that Christian may be time traveling, he could perhaps take someone with him...if that's the case, everyone THINKS he's (Jin/Michael)dead, but he's really not..."

That got me thinking, do we really know that Christian ever was REALLY dead? Ok, so he was supposed to be in the coffin, but did we see his actual death? I'm wondering if he never really did die in the first place, but used this time travelling abilty to nip in and out wherever he wanted, faking his own death in the process as a way to get Jack on that flight and on the island for what ever his "important work" that he has to do might be?

Does the time traveling also explain the mysterious appearances/disappearance of the infamous cabin? Rather than a special state of consciousness or ability needed to find it, was it just that it was being moved through/suspended in time to appear exactly when Christian/Jacob wanted or needed it to?

I'm as confused as ever - but love it!!

LostDave is right about Jin, Sun, and Widmore, i.e. Jin is dead, and Sun is getting close to Widmore because he is the other person she blames for Jin’s death. Or maybe he’s wrong.

Jin obviously died in the explosion. This doesn’t mean we won’t see him again. After all, who else is dead - and gone - on Lost? Almost everyone who dies pops up again, be it in dreams or as some kind of solid flesh. Of course, Jin did not die in close proximity to the island, but it doesn’t really seem to matter how close you are to the island to be affected by it.

Does Sun think Jin is dead? Yes, unless Jeremy Bentham has informed her otherwise. We don’t know what Bentham actually said to anyone, other than they must return to the island and some terrible things have happened there - and it’s Jack’s fault. Perhaps he told Sun that Jin is alive but in danger. Then she wouldn’t be motivated simply by revenge to get at Widmore, but using him thinking that if he found the island once, he can again. I strongly lean to Widmore being the other person Sun blames, but it could be Ben. Penny might have given Sun an ear full about her father or she might have painted a sympathetic portrait. She might know about Ben as well (he knows about her) and filled in the O6 with her take on him. (Also, Penny’s boat traveled 3,000 to deposit the O6 near the Sunda trench. There’s no way they’re going back to fetch Jin out of the open water or off some little inflatable boat.)

The interesting question is what does it really means to be “dead” on island. Much is made throughout the series about the disposal of dead bodies. Jack is transporting Christian on the plane. Those who died in the plane crash are burned with ceremonial fanfare, subsequent corpses among the losties are treated respectfully and buried, even Ethan. One episode centers around the mistaken burial of two survivors. And it’s always significant who buries whom. Ben apparently has strong feelings about dead bodies - Goodwin is left to rot while the “Other” that Sun shot is given a Viking-type funeral. This clearly shows the degree of respect Ben had for these individuals. Henry Gale is buried but Dharma people are left to rot in an open pit (as was Locke), and Ben’s father’s body is abandoned at the site of his demise. Other people are left to rot also (not necessarily by Ben), like Yemi and “Adam and Eve.” Naomi’s corpse is inordinately fussed over by the show’s writers (you see her dead face over and over) and transported to the boat, never to be seen again. The disposition of ones corpse is significant on (or to) the island. If you have any doubt, ask yourself why it would matter if Bentham’s corpse is returned to the island.

To quote Mark Twain, "The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated"

As have the rumors of Jin's death this entire season. This character can really hold his own. After all who did he work for before coming to the island.

Not being part of the 06 had nothing to do with his death. It was the fateful bullet that pierced the fuel tank.

If you didn't see that coming, please pull out your TV or movie viewing handbooks and refer to the chapter what can go wrong? It's right before always check pulse to make sure the bad guy is dead. ;)

Jin may have died a hero trying to save everyone, but Michael knew that he needed to be a father instead. Lost in the halls with the clock ticking, his wife waiting, there was not a chance that Jin would make it to the chopper in time.

Jin's story is not over, like the legendary Chuck Norris who doesn't cheat death, he wins fair and square. We will see Jin again.

As death once had a near-Chuck-Norris experience, I believe death is having a near-Jin experience.

Have faith this is after all LOST

I am new at this, but what if the other person that Sun is mad at is Locke? Maybe her meeting with Widmore was around the time that Lock was visiting Walt trying to get them to come back. That is why she said "we are not the only ones who left the island" - Widmore wants the island Sun wants her revenge, Locke ends up dead.... just a thought

I want Jin to be alive but like others have said, not sure how believabe they can make it.

I'm with you LostDave- i think Sun's staying close to the eneme- Windmore.

to Feyguy:

We learned Charlie doesn't swim in the first season, White Rabbit. Crash survivor Joanna drowns as Boone and Jack try to save her, Charlie can only yell for the others to help because he says, "I don't swim."

Ok, so I'm beginning to be less convinced about Desmond being the focus of Sun's wrath. But I believe he does play a part.

We do know when Ben visited Widmore if we can take their conversation at face value.

Widmore: You're getting more sun.
Linus: Iraq is lovely this time of year.

So Benjamin arrived at the hotel in Tunisia 10/2005 when he saw the news of Nadia's death and Sayed being interviewed in Tikkrit. Then Benjamin helps Sayed kill Nadia's assassin in Tikkrit. We then see him visit Widmore and refer to his time in Iraq.

Also in the meeting with Widmore, Benjamin tells him that he is going to kill Penelope. Penelope is with Desmond.

Around that three year mark (the baby's talking) we see Sun and Widmore together and she tells him 'As you know, we're not the only one's who left the island.' I still believe that this statement refers to Desmond. He's the link to Penelope and Penelope is the focus of Benjamin's wrath against Widmore.

Ben is a slick guy. He already got Sayed on board to plot against Widmore. He could be using Sun as well. Ben looses Alex. Sun looses Jin. Sayed looses Nadia. They all go after Widmore for revenge.

M

Even if Jin somehow survived the explosion, he couldn't have made it back to the island in time. The chopper was already heading back when they saw the explosion. And Lapidis had it going as fast as it would move because they were still losing fuel. They saw the island disapear before they could get to it, and crashed into the ocean.

Do you think Jin is such a good swimmer that he could out-pace a helicopter at full speed? Do you think he could have been blown by the explosion with such force that his body flew past the helicopter and landed in the ocean, close-enough to the island to be taken away with it, and yet that wouldn't have killed him?

And Penny didn't drop off the other O6 on that other island till a week after she picked them up. Why would she wait that long to go back and look for Jin? If he was alive, and floating in the ocean, then he would have died of exposure by then.

I highly doubt Jin is alive. But that doesn't mean he won't be back next season. Plenty of other dead people have showed up on that island. And have visited other people off-island.

Faraday may have been close enough to have been pulled along with the island. I doubt they're done with him on the show.

I'm sure Sun has some hard feelings for Jack over what happened, but I hardly think he's the one she was refering to as one of the two people responsible for Jin's death. She doesn't even have any good reason to blame Ben, because none of them know Ben killed Keamy and caused the explosion. The only person it makes sense for her to blame - and who really is most at fault - is Widmore. Am I the only one who thinks she's getting close to Widmore so she can stab him in the back?

Also, we don't know when Widmore's meeting with Ben takes place. The timeline for the flash-forwards is still being fleshed-out. Some events (Jack returning to practicing surgury, Kate's trial, the two of them finally getting together, etc.) happen relatively soon after their rescue. But some take place as much as three years after the rescue (bearded, pill-popping Jack realizing they made a mistake leaving the island). Sun's meeting with Widmore may have happened prior to Ben's visit to him.

*deus ex machina OFC
sorry, typo.
as a non-english speaker, i was trying hard to formulate English sentences that make some sense, and I fail at a Latin word. :)
/off

My guess:
Michael - RIP
Jin - RIP

Reason:
When half a ton of C4 goes off, it hardly matters if you're ON the deck or BESIDE the boat in the water.
In Hollywood if you're underwater, you're invulnerable. Whatever happens above, just dive and you're fine.

Not quite.

Okay, I understand that it's still a movie, but so far in regards of movie physics and suspension of disbelief this show delivers pretty good.
It would be a shame, if they used this cliché as a deux ex machina. It's like stepping out of a falling plane just before it crashes and survive. An explosion of such magnitude DOES ruin anyone's day.

Yeah, poor Jin. But poor Charlie, poor Libby, poor Eko, Shannon, Boone, Alex etc. etc... I say condolences should not affect the plot.

Oh, and I don't think either that Christian "teleported" Jin to safety. We have not seen such feat from anyone so far. And Jin is just a minor character to introduce such phenomenon in the story.

...or maybe since Ben cannot return for whatever reason, Widmore is the only person who can get her and the other 5 back to the island, which supposedly they were never supposed to leave.

I'm not convinced that Sun is out for revenge. I don't think she bought the controlling interest in her father's company just to punish him; I think she plans to use the company for some purpose. My guess is that, like the other 5, Locke came to visit her and told her something to convince her to return--maybe that Jin was alive and on the island (although I don't see how he could have survived that explosion even if he jumped from the freighter). Perhaps she intends to offer her father's company to Widmore as payment for Jin's and/or the other islanders' safe passage home.

Madfish - My thoughts on Sun were that the two people she was blaming was her father and Ben. Since she knew they came to get him, and she knew that they were going to kill everyone to get him, it could just as easily be thought of as Ben's fault, which would also explain the Widmore connection.

One other thing to point out - we know Ben visits Widmore in his bedroom, but do we know when? We assume it's in with the other events, but I don't recall any evidence that gave the exact time of the visit....

Okay, well I would not mind time travelling on the show, i love it, I am not sure if this is actually regular time travel. Ben popped out in tunisia what nine months later, maybe at the same time the island reappeared. So maybe in a way it was just "holding" for nine months. Now both ben and the island are back.

Pooe you're absolutely right.

But if Sun wanted Jack, with the power she is wielding now, she wouldn't need Widmore. She could easily command one of her fathers thugs to do the job. She went to Widmore because she needs his help - to her find his daughter (ie Desmond).

Widmore is aware that Jack has returned. Sun's reference was to someone other than the O6 - that leaves Desmond and Frank. Sure Jack may feel responsible, guilty and believe Sun blames him. But is in a pretty low spot at the end and from his current state feels low about everything. That doesn't mean that he is the target for her revenge.

I'm willing to be wrong on this one. But you must admit the argument has merit.

M

Just a remainder to madfish,

In the end of the episode when Jack is talking to Ben at the funeral parlor he says "...and sun blaims me for..."

I remember in the previous episode Sun says that she is blaiming two persons for Jin's death where one was here father. My bet's on Jack.

Here's a theory to consider:

There is much speculation that Sun's anger is pointed towards Ben because of the meeting with Widmore. I admit that this was my first thought as well. But futher pondering has brought me another plausible theory.

Sun holds Desmond reponsible for Jin's death. (Now stick with me for a moment)

The meeting between Sun and Widmore had to have occurred around that 3 year after mark. Baby Jin (sorry I can't remember her name at the moment) was talking to Sun on the phone. Ben visited Widmore shortly after he returned from the island so Widmore already knows that Ben has returned. BUT he might not know that his minor nemisis has - Desmond. So Sun's comment of 'we weren't the only ones who left the island' could just as easily apply to Desmond.

Why would Sun be angry at Desmond? Well he made the helicopter and Jin didn't by a very small margin. She may blame him. She had time from the helicopter to Searcher to get full details. Desmond got his happy ending and Sun and Jin did not.

It has merit.

M

I'm curious. Why does everyone believe that Rose and Bernard tried to leave the island. They remained on the beach with Jack not because they wanted to leave; but because Rose didn't want to go trapesing through the jungle with Locke.

Charlotte and Miles chose to stay behind and their choice was respected. Why not Rose and Bernard? Rose and Bernard are fine and will be waiting happily when everyone (whoever they may be) returns.

Free will - don't leave home without it.

M

I just found out that Jin will be coming back.. Enough said, not dead.

peace

I just wanna say that it was the first thought that crossed my mind when we didn't actually see Jin get killed, he's a good swimmer we already know too.

Hey westy185, good point about Charlie! I only vaguely remember Charlie's inability to swim in the first season. When/how did we learn that?

VirusBrown, thanks for confirming Michael's death. That's good to know because he was an annoying character! I do have to criticize the show's producers though for leaving his and Walt's storyline hanging for so long and then reintroducing Michael on the freighter just to kill him off. Then, they have Walt visit Hurley in the season finale as a sort of teaser to let us know Walt will be back in the storyline next season; nothing important transpired in their conversation. I've always been frustrated by the fact that we are told Walt is special but then never see why that matters. They had better make Walt a key character if they're going to be bringing him back.

Sawyer said something like "I have a daughter in Albuquerque, could you find her, tell her I'm sorry" .....something to that nature.

Not sure about Jin, but Michael is dead...this is from a recent tv guide interview...

"Listen, if I'm being really candid, there are all these questions about how they respond to black people on the show. Sayid gets to meet Nadia again, and Desmond and Penny hook up again, but a little black boy and his father hooking up, that wasn't interesting? Instead, Walt just winds up being another fatherless child. It plays into a really big, weird stereotype and, being a black person myself, that wasn't so interesting."

ok, try this theory:

Widmore used to be on the island. He's the guy who moved it the last time. So, like Ben, he's trying to find it to return to it.

Anyone catch what Sawyer whispered to Kate?

Methinks it's painfully obvious that the island is really sentient in some sort of way - a collective amalgamation of psychic residual energies, perhaps?

Christian popping up all over the place is pretty much an avatar for what the island is thinking, the island having amazing healing properties and what not, perhaps "reanimated" the body and somehow translates it's thoughts into the corpse.

We've seen it with Boone, we've seen it with Eko's brother, and we'll see it with Christian Shepherd.

I also think the island will do the same with Locke's corpse.

This is all very reminiscient of a classic X-Men story line, Krakoa: the living island.

Another thought I just had about Jin's survival - I can easily see Desmond and Penny going looking for him after they unloaded Jack and the others of the Oceanic 6. After all, he was in that room with Michael and Jin for a time - perhaps feeling guilty drove him to go and see what he could find. Seems convenient to me, especially because it appears that Desmond and Penny have their happy ending and don't have much part in the story anymore (of course, we know nothing about what Penny's been up to lately). With Jin on their boat, they're still very much a part of the story.

"Asmodean said:
I was on the Jin's alive team, but I believe he's gone. He will become the catalyst of Sun's fury."

This is precisely why I think he's still alive. I'll explain - near the end of last night's finale, it clearly seems Sun is aligning herself with Widmore, probably for some sort of revenge against Ben or the island. While I can understand her fury, it doesn't seem compelling enough to be a storyline continued within the show...unless of course Jin is still alive and on the island! Can you imagine the drama when Sun is with Widmore, Jin is now with Ben and they meet!? In my opinion, this is where the Sun/Widmore subplot is heading. Besides, Faraday must have been pretty close to the freighter with the next load of survivors when it exploded so they could have easily scooped up Jin.

About Faraday - he is way too intriguing to be gone from the story. Also, I'm pretty sure Rose and Bernard were on that raft trip, another reason for that raft and its survivors to still be very much a part of the story.

I agree that Michael is dead for all the other reasons stated relative to his being held "captive" by the island's judgement.

Beautiful connection, feyguy, about Ben, his jacket and being displaced to Tunisia!

althought i would love for jin to be alive, i think he's dead. that scene was so climactic, so dramatic, i think that was the end for the people on the boat.

jin aint dead

Time travel must now be acknowledged as absolutely happening on this show. Without it, not much would make logical sense. Clues to time travel are everywhere throughout the series. In the finale, Sun’s scream is repeated from one moment to the next and we have the “bunny” booth (did it remind anyone else of a big microwave oven?).

Traveling through time is causing different realities to come into existence. When this happens, it changes not only the future, but the present and past as well. For example: Charlie can’t swim in the first season. By season 3, he not only swims like a fish down to the underwater station, but he recalls how his father taught him to swim as a young boy.

There is a chance that Jin jumped off the boat. Who knows? We'll find out next season.

I'd like to know what is up with Obi Wan Shephard! Suddenly, Christian is popping up all over the place and apparently directing the course of events! Was he involved from the very beginning or has he been brought into Jacob's fold since arriving on the island? Yes, he was dead on the plane in 2004 but he wasn't dead back in 1996, which is island time according to one theory (http://duggmirror.com/television/An_Extremely_Compelling_LOST_Theory/). So, did he plan his death in Australia knowing he'd be resurrected on the island unbeknownst to the other 815-ers, thus allowing him to do whatever he's been doing behind the scenes?

As for the island, I think the orientation video for the Orchid may have been a clue. Just like Rabbit #15, perhaps Ben merely moved the island through time and not space such that the island will reappear in the same place in the future. This makes more sense since moving the island to another location where it would be stable and not slip or sink into the sea would be virtually impossible--forgiving, of course, the fact that sending a landmass forward in time is also impossible in the real world.

The only part that casts doubt on my time warp theory is the fact that Ben wakes up in the Tunisian dessert. (Recall that when we saw him in that flashforward, he was wearing the same jacket and had the same injury to his upper arm, which he suffered during the fall off the ladder in the ice cave. He also beats the snot out of those bandits with the same telescoping rod with which he clobbered Keamy in the Orchid.) My guess is that the force of the time warp event knocked him through space and he landed by luck or perhaps fate in the future in Tunisia, a larger scale of the same thing that happened to Desmond when he turned the fail safe key in the Swan (recall that he woke up naked in the jungle)--except Ben somehow managed to remain clothed.

For whatever reason, Farraday did not want to be on that island when it jumped. We know he is also a time traveler. Otherwise, he wouldn't need Desmond as a constant. He's experienced alternate time lines and that's how--like Ben--he knows what's going on. My guess is that he has important work to do in the present to combat the bad events that happen in the future and that's why he needed off the island. I'm not sure how he's going to get rescued but I know he wouldn't be as sloppy as to allow the island to suck him with it when it moved.

Oh yeah, I think Michael and Jin are both dead. Jin's purpose was to get Sun off the island, which he did. Now, he's not really an important character.

here is a clearer version of Kate's dream phone call:

http://www.docarzt.com/lost-theories/lost-whispers---phone-call-in.php

that was a flashback of Faraday before he went to the island though. Although i am banking on him being alive and rescuing Jin.

first post in a while... Not completely certain about Jin’s death, however Michael definitely is. However, for me he is as “dead” as Claire… Christian (a.k.a. The Island/Smokey/ or simply ???) took him as well – or “released” him for that sake.

As per Faraday’s crew, we do know that he made if off the island. I don’t remember the exact episode but I do remember him sitting in front of the TV with tears in his eyes as he saw the fake Oceanic plane being discovered. He is actually shown as a nut job, with the classic “bathroom rube & slippers” outfit, and a nurse asking him why is he so upset about… He clearly answers “I don’t know!”
So, I think that some how Faraday’s raft got “Lost” after the island moved… This is a big deal since Faraday have previously stated that there’s an specific path for getting in and out of the island (using boats and/or aircraft of course… not submarines). We all saw the consequences of getting “Lost” while traveling from the boat to the island and vice versa. Even Desmond experienced it when he lost “sync” while on the chopper, good thing Penny saved his ass again since she was “his constant”.
By the end of that episode, Faraday is shown checking his nerd book… I don’t remember who or what his constant was… but he clearly missed it

Just a thought

I have always thought Jin is alive, and last episode did not change that. Sure, it would have been a long swim back to the island, but he is a fisherman's son, and used to the ocean. Also, he could have found some jetsam to float on. Or he could have been picked up by Faraday. I don't believe that Sun knows he is alive, though. Aas for having a grave, Sun wold not have had his body even if he did die, so the grave is more a marker for remembrance than an actual grave.

I can't quite understnad Sun's attitude towards Jack, though. He had to make a hard decision.If they had tried to wait for Jin, everone would have been blown up.

Sun's screams were waaayyy OVERDONE!! Did you notice that the 2nd time she screamed was exactly the same as the 1st scream? Maybe a time travel thing???

Did anyone else notice how odd Faraday was acting on his last trip to the boat.

It was like he "knew" what was about to happen and that he "knew" he didn;t want to do it.

Also the island created a buffer zone around it - hence the only path in is 305 degrees and also Desmond was on his boat for 2 weeks and couldn;t get out.

So my thinking is it pulls in "x" amount of area around it.

Lastly I think the island displaces itself in Time and not a location. If you follow the example of the instructiuon tape. Candlewax states that they move the bunny in time and if you wait a couple of minutes it will reappear. So basically the island has "jumpped" from the current time line to some other place in time. More than likely into the future.

I believe they used this as a writing tool to get to our current present time of 2008 since the show has been in the time of 2004 for so long.

More than likely the island had reappeared in the future.

anyone see the promo about 3 different ending for lost's finale?

I wouldn't be surprised if Jin was alive, it's possible that Faraday's boat was nearby and rescued an overboard Jin. Plus Sawyer managed to swim back to shore with the help of the current. But the only thing that is puzzling to me is did he jump in time (if he did) to find the island before it moved?

I'm convinced Michael is dead, and that is what Christian meant by "go". But Claire on the other hand, if she is dead how come so many people saw her after the house blew up?

In case anyone hasn't seen it yet, here are the alternate endings shown on good morning america:

http://www.tvsquad.com/2008/05/30/lost-alternate-endings-air-on-gma-video/

I have to say Jin is alive although he didn't die on the island, but neither did Christian and he's walking around.

I have to put my vote in the Jin is alive category simply because I don't think he has given back to the island enough for all the bad he did under the employ of Mr. (Sun's subordinate) Paik. Also, why have him learn English if he's only gonna speak it for a few episodes? I think the PTB made his character learn the language because they knew Sun wasn't always going to be around to translate.

***Jin is Alive. Michael said "Jin, you're going to be a father, leave now". If those words were meant for nothing. Than it was a waste of time.***

Excellent point!

IMHO, Jin is, like Widmore, trying to find the island again. I wouldn't be surprised if they team up for such. But not because she thinks Jin might be alive... but that the island can bring him back to her anyways.

I agree with the comment that there are really very few "friends" back at the island for whom Sayid would agree to do all that killing for. But I don't think Jin is alive.
Michael is - finally and deserving - DEAD!

Jin is Alive. Michael said "Jin, you're going to be a father, leave now". If those words were meant for nothing. Than it was a waste of time.

I was on the Jin's alive team, but I believe he's gone. He will become the catalyst of Sun's fury.
I knew jack was going to be the other person she thought responsible (don't know if I called it 1st).

Empty boat deck. My answer for that is that it was a big pyrotechnical event and they didn't want actors or stuntmen in danger. They could've CGI'd him, but I think the point was made by her reaction.

Faraday's boat was full of Oceanic survivors. Just because they weren't any of the "important" ones that they show has focused on, doesn't mean anything to the outside world. And if those people suddenly showed up back in civilization, when they were supposed to be in a plane at the bottom of the ocean, it would have been big news. Just like it was with the Oceanic 6.

Or would this make it the Oceanic 12? And how would they explain why this second group's story didn't match up with the story the "original Oceanic 6" told?

So either Faraday's boat doesn't make it back to civilization, or they are intercepted by someone else who either kills or holds the Oceanic people captive. (Another of Widmore's boats?) Or they were still close enough to get swept up by the island moving.

I don't want Jin to be dead either, but I don't have much hope for him.

my thoughts:
jin = alive (christian told michael he could go, but not jin. jin is in.)
michael = dead
daniel = alive (i think if he were left for dead in the ocean with the zodiac, they probably would have explained that in the episode)
claire = "dead" but when?

Jin is alive. I'm sure of it. I think that when Christian said "It's time for you to go Michael" he meant GO, as in die. Michael had done what the island needed him to do, and therefore his part in things is over.

I can NOT imagine, however, that Faraday's boat is with the island, but who knows. There were no "real" Losties on the boat, just extras, right? So we may have seen the end of Faraday, too bad. I liked him.

Or, my other theory is that Jin jumped and Faraday's boat picked him up and who knows from there, but they're all alive. No idea.

Guessing that next season is a lot of Jack & Ben and Hurley convincing the rest to go back to the island (after they locate it) and I'm also guessing that if Jin's alive Ben knows he is and will use that to convince Sun to return.

Who's left on the island now? By my count: Juliet, Sawyer, Rose, Bernard, Miles & Rebecca, then Locke and the Others. Anyone I'm missing?

I'm really hoping that Jin isn't dead. I'd like to think that there's some way the blast threw him far enough near the island that it would have taken him with it, but then Daniel Faraday's boat would have been pulled with the island too... Maybe it was. Who knows.
But I really want Jin to be alive.

Yeah, Michael is defintely dead. The island wouldn't let him die before he did something for it - regardless of how much he tried to kill himself or other people tried to kill him (Keamy). But he completed his job, and now the island "set him free".

There is a slim chance that Jin got off the freighter in time to survive the explosion, but I doubt it. It wouldn't have done him a lot of good anyway without an island nearby to swim to.

And even though they didn't show it, do you really think Sun wouldn't have insisted that Penny swing her boat around where the freighter wreckage was, to see if there were survivors in the water?

Some might speculate that the freighter wreakage - and any possible survivors of the explosion - might have gotten "pulled in" with the island when it was moved. But that wouldn't make sense because the chopper was speeding from the wreakage to the island when the island disapeared, and it didn't get swept away with island when it moved - even though it was closer to it. And there's no way Jin could swim faster than the chopper could fly.

What I'm wondering about is Faraday and his zodiac. Where they close enough to the island to be taken with it? Or are they bobbing around in the open ocean? If they weren't taken with the island, why didn't Penny's boat find them? Or why didn't they find the liferaft?

And we know that three years out (from the flash-forwards) there were no other Oceanic passengers - other than the six - who miraculously returned from the dead. So I think either the zodiac got pulled along with the island, or someone else intercepted it.

They are both dead. If Jin is Alive after that explosion, then that is taking the "mysterious island thing too far. Plus, even if he did make it off the boat, it's not like he can swim to the island. He would die of exposure way before anyone finds him.

I don't think Michael is still alive, I think what Christian meant by telling him he could go now was saying he could die now as the island wouldn't let him die uintil he did what the island wanted him to do. Now Jin on the other hand could still be alive, he might have jumped off the boat last second (it looks like something splashed in the water anyway). Obviously from the end of last night's episode they go back to the island. Jin could be washed up on the shore with Sawyer and Juliet.

Only graves I visit with fake dead people are the ones on Halloween. So, that's be one dead Korean.

first post...my wife made a comment as we were watching...that maybe Christian, when he showed up and told Michael he could go, he took both Michael and Jin with HIM...off the freighter, to the island...

the fact that Christian may be time traveling, he could perhaps take someone with him...if that's the case, everyone THINKS he's dead, but he's really not...

plus did anyone catch Hurley telling Walt that he was lying to protect those left on the island, to which Walt said "like my dad" and Hurley agrees....now he may have been saying this just to comfort Walt....OR...Michael got off the freighter to the island...the only way that would happen is if Christian took them and if he took Michael, why wouldn't he take Jin???

just a thought...

Jin lives, I say! He and his wife must be reunited!

I mean, when you think about it... it would make for a boring set of people left behind without him... of the main cast members, all we've got are Sawyer, Claire (hopefully), John Locke, and Juliet... Unless you also want to count Daniel, Miles, and Charlotte... but they're not really friends of the O6 (that they'd want to "protect"). Then we've got a few other random characters that could maybe be made into series regulars: Bernard, Rose, Richard, the Tallies (Cindy and the kids), Harper... and that's pretty much it...

I guess that's enough people to focus on without Jin being in the story... but I just think it'll be so much better if he's alive, and then Sun is reunited with him after thinking he's been dead for so long... it'd be wonderful.