What's Hot: An "Idea" of Faith
What's Hot: An "Idea" of Faith
From the beginning, one of the recurring themes in Lost has been that of the struggle between science and faith. This is a common struggle that we all see and experience in our lives everyday, and Lost has done a fantastic job of bringing this theme out for us to face. I find it interesting, that even in our own forums here at SW, and other sites like it across the web, the majority of our discussions hinge around those of us who believe that what we are seeing on the island can be explained by the logical, and those of us who believe the answers are more mystical in nature. I have always thought that my ideas about the show lie somewhere in between that of science and faith.
It is for these very reasons that I typically refrain from posting theories that try to explain away what we are seeing unfold to us each week. Sure, I have my ideas about what will happen next, and who or what is behind certain things, but call it a theory and you're opening yourself up to untold amounts of back and forth about who's right and who's wrong. I've also found that once someone posts a "theory" on a website, we tend to nurture and protect that theory, never wanting to fully let it go and believe that we are wrong. It is for that reason that I refuse to call any of this a theory. I prefer to think of it as more of an idea, or a possible solution to some of the mysteries that we've been seeing turn up from week to week. Obviously I don't claim any ownership on most of these ideas, because many of you have been talking about them for weeks, or even years in some cases. These are nothing more than the "ideas" that I choose to prescribe to at the moment. In 5 weeks, when the show returns, I reserve the right at any moment to let go of these thoughts.
Ben, Jacob, Smokey, and the Island
It has been suggested for some time now that Smokey is not just seen on the island as a puff of smoke flying around the place. I believe strongly that Smokey can manifest himself into other things. It is my thoughts that Jack seeing Christian, Hurley seeing Dave, Kate seeing the Black Horse, and even Juliet seeing Harper were all manifestations of Smokey. Even Locke seeing Walt and Hurley seeing Charlie could have been a manifestation of Smokey. We also know that these manifestations aren't simply in someone's mind. When Kate sees the Black Horse she isn't imagining it, it is really there. We know this because Sawyer saw the horse as well. Even Hurley's talk with Charlie in his flash forward this season could have been a manifestation of smokey. I know that most people will find this difficult to believe, but it does seem as though the island's powers are not limited to just the island itself.
We've also seen a few short glimpses of Jacob now. The clues seem to strongly suggest that Ben has found some way to take Jacob hostage. The ash circle around Jacob's house, suggests to me some mystical method of keeping a spirit trapped. But I'll go a step further, as many others have as well, and say that it seems to me right now that Jacob and the island are one in the same. This may not be entirely true and only time will tell, but at the moment I think it fits to assume that Jacob is the personification of the island. If you can follow me on this path for a moment, then you will realize that this means that Ben doesn't just have some strange and invisible old man's spirit held hostage, but instead he's holding this island and all its powers hostage. He's found a way to take advantage of the island's power and use it to do anything he wants. The magic box that Ben brought up, is just a metaphor of Jacob, and the overall spirit of the island.
Now, obviously whatever Ben has done to take advantage of this power isn't fool-proof. I don't think that Ben has total control of the island. But he can certainly manipulate things to his liking. But Locke, of instance, isn't something that I think Ben has anything to do with. Locke is the island's hopes at freeing itself from Ben's control. There are several things that got me thinking along this path recently. When Juliet sees Harper in The Other Woman, she specifically says that Ben sent her. I think it is reasonable to assume that Ben did, in fact, somehow send her (even though it wasn't really her, but a manifestation of smokey). After all, Ben has the strongest motive for stopping Dan and Charlotte in their quest to shut down the Tempest. This was the moment that I first began to feel that Ben has much greater control over Jacob than we might have previously thought.
My next revelation was in Ji Yeon, when Sayid is talking to the captain about the black box. After specifically pointing out just how many resources it took Mr. Widmore to just get the black box from the crash, he said this,
"The wreckage was obviously staged. Now can you imagine what kind of resources and manpower go into pulling off a feat of that magnitude? Faking the recovery of a plane crash? Putting 324 families through a grieving process based on a lie? But what's even more disturbing... where exactly does one come across 324 dead bodies? And that, Mr. Jarrah, Mr. Hume, is just one of the many reasons we want Benjamin Linus."
This clearly seems to indicate that Charles Widmore believes that Benjamin Linus discovered a method in which to pull off a feat of this magnitude. I think that Charles Widmore has had some knowledge that this island might exist for some time now, and somehow knows the power it wields. And how, you might ask, could a freaky little man, on an island in the middle of nowhere have the resources to pull off something like this? Let me ask you this, if "the magic box" can deliver Locke's dad to the island, allow so many people to have survived the plane crash, and let Hurley and at least one other person see Charlie back on the mainland, is it such a far stretch to think that Jacob/The Island/The magic box couldn't also show the world the remains of a plane crash, with bodies on board, to everyone on the planet? I'm not saying the crash wasn't there, I'm saying that maybe, just maybe, the wreckage they saw, the bodies they saw, the very black box sitting in the captain's room is nothing more than a manifestation made by the island.
Anyone still reading this? Oh good, I was afraid you'd all leave after that last sentence, and just proclaim me as another crazy mystical theory person. I do realize how far reaching it sounds, and even I'm not totally convinced that's what's going on. But so far, I am convinced that it is Ben and not Charles Widmore, who is behind the plane cover up. And I am convinced that Ben can't have more real world, physical resources than Charles Widmore does. I think the only resource at his disposal is his ability to control the island's powers.
Charles Widmore's Intentions
So you might be asking, then, what do I think Charles Widmore's true intentions are? Is he a good guy, or a bad guy. First off, I find it interesting how we are constantly trying to peg people into the roles of Good-guy/Bad-guy. I think that in real life we rarely have a person so well defined. The characters in Lost were created very much in the image of real people. I think Ben is a good example of this. He is in no way a good guy. He has done some things that most of us would consider immoral and bad. However, he claims to act in a higher purpose and for a greater good. We certainly don't know if this is true or not, but even if it is, it doesn't excuse the bad things he's done or make him more good. It just means that he made moral sacrifices along the way for something that he truely believed in. Good or bad, that is something that defines the best, and worst of us. In a similar respect, I don't think that Charles Widmore is a "good-guy." I tihnk that he is after the powers of the island that Ben has control of, and he plans to use them for his own selfish goals. There's no true proof of this, other than its what I feel his personality portrays. Charlies Widmore is truely our antagonist.
Leaving the Island, and the need to return
There has been a great deal of discussion around the Oceanic 6, and why Jack and Hurley would feel such a need to get back. And what would bring Sayid into the services of Ben? One of the other long standing themes of Lost has been one of redemption. The island has even been portray, in a way, as the very face of redemption. We see this in the way it forced the survivors to face the worst of who they were, and realize that they could start again.
I won't pretend that I have an idea of the exact circumstances of how all of this is going to play out towards the end of the season. But I do thing we are going to see an extreme showdown. I think that Jack, Kate, and the other Oceanic 6 are going to have an opportunity to leave, but realize that they will have to leave the others behind. I also think that most, if not all of the freighter people will die or be killed in the process, and at least a few of the survivors as well. We'll certainly be left wondering if a few of them actually did survive on the island or not, but at least 2 deaths will be obvious. I think Jin will be one of those 2 deaths.
I think that Jack's need to return to the island is fueled by his need to redeem himself for leaving the others to begin with. His need to give up on his science side, and have some faith. Widmore knows about the island, and he'll never stop looking for it. And if he ever finds it, everyone Jack left behind will die. That will be the leverage that Ben uses to get Sayid to help him. Sayid, too, left the others behind. And he will feel that helping to stop Charles Widmore will be his retribution for deserting the others. In the end, their need to get back to the island will be more than just to save their friends from Charles Widmore, and possibly even Ben Linus. It will be their need to save themselves and finally have redemption.
As I stated when I began, these are just my thoughts and ideas about the show at this point. Its taken me a week to decide to post them for you all to read and comment on. I welcome your posts in support of or against anything I've written. I am certainly not glued to any of these ideas. I realize that at best, only parts of what I have written may turn out to be correct, and most likely it will be 90% wrong. But as another poster on the site used to say, if you throw enough crap on the wall, eventually something's bound to stick. Right?
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I'll try to make this brief, as I am at work right now. I agree that people aren't all "bad" or "good". Having said that, I think Widmore is part of the original Dharma/Hanso group, but I also think he and maybe others have been corrupted, knowing the power the island can wield. Even though the Dharma period was scientific and innocent, leaders of the group such as Hanso and Widmore realized the potential the island could give them for power and control. The island can't be found by the outside world, so he exhaustingly monitors for any signs of it's appearance. We know of a couple, one having to do with Desmond destroying the hatch. Now that he has a bead on it, he's gonna kick some Ben butt. However, I think it's gonna be deeper than all that.
How do we explain the existence of the original "hostiles"? The culture that was there on the island long before anyone else (the 4 toed statue). The temple may hold answers to these clues.
Time travel HAS to have a major significance in the story. I know it's science, and not faith, but it will be huge.
Lastly, everyone is on that island for a REASON. I think that's the biggest theme of the story. I think the same "movers and shakers" that we think are corrupt, had a hand in why our losties are on the island, perhaps for protection form something apacolyptic about to happen to the rest of the world. Ok, that's all of my rambling, thanks for obliging me.
I've also felt right from the time we saw the plane at the bottom of the ocean that it was Ben's doing and I still believe that.
If we're throwing stuff at the wall, let's try this idea of mine...
Charles Widmore is part of the Dharma Initiative.
Ben schemed to kill all the Dharma people on the island. But there must have been (and probably still are) Dharma people on the mainland. They would know about the island and about Ben and his people.
What if Widmore is a Dharma guy trying to get to the island and find Ben. Firstly, to punish Ben for his slaying of the Dharma folks on the island. Secondly, to continue their research. Ben thinks that he has to save the Island from Dharma, so it would stand to reason that he would want to keep Widmore away.
Widmore would also want to be rid of all of Ben's people as they have already proven themselves as a threat to Dharma. So, Ben's comment that the people looking for him want to kill everyone on the island is true. Only Widmore thinks that only Ben's people are on the island. Until Naomi lands on the island, there is no evidence of the Oceanic survivors being there.
If Widmore is part of Dharma, he may have filled Penny in on the whole story. It would explain how Penny knows about the Island and knew where to look for Desmond. It also explains how the guys in Iceland (or wherever) knew where and how to look for the blip when the hatch exploded, and report it to Penny.
As someone else mentioned, we've learned to think of Widmore as a bad guy because we see him through Desmond and Ben's eyes. But he's just a Dad trying to protect his daughter from someone that he, perhaps, thinks isn't good enough for her. Ben's dislike for him is because he sees Dharma and, therefore, Widmore as his enemy.
But what if Widmore is really the good guy???
As a follow-up to my previous post, AstroJones, I am sorry I mistook you for Sledge. Also, another coworker reminded me that Mr. A was the one who commissioned Widmore's team on the freighter, so when he visited Hurley in the mental ward, he probably was not a Smokey manifestation. I do not doubt, however, that the producers purposely edited the shadows to create the illusion.
Also, I agree with Novashannon. Ben is a villain. He is driven by his own selfish desires and has few if any redeeming qualities.
I have, at this point, read literally thousands of theories on the subject of our favorite island. But I have to say this one is as spot on to what I am thinking as any I have ever happened upon. Jacob=Island=Ben's source of power. Right on. Yet, if this is wrong, as good as this show has been (especially this season), I can't wait to see where the real answers lay (or LIE)!!!!
I love reading the many ideas everyone else has! I don't think Jin is dead, nor many of the other Losties. I think the few who escape do so in the helicopeer, which has been established can only carry a few of them. Five and little Aaron.
I think there are both magical and scientific aspects to the island. The scientific ones were intorduced by Dharma, the mystic ones are intrinsic to the island - which may actually be Circe's island, " from out of Greek myth.
Ben has consistently lied and told half-truths, and I do not believe he is in any way a "Good guy." He not only killed his own father, he colluded in the killing of the entire Dharma colony. He stole the children from the camp, rather than just taling to the Losties. HIs men stole Walt from the raft and almost killed the other rafters in the process. He sent Alex, Danielle, and Alex's boyfreind out knowing that they would get shot at. O know most people are a mixture of bad/good, but Ben falls heavily on the bad side. He will stop at nothing to get what he wants (witness Juliet) . I think he is a psycho.He is very good at mind games and twisting events to make himself seem innocent, but we must remember that he is the one stirring the pot, and that events fall out to his advantage with remarkable frequency.
Thanks for posting all this, Astro! It's a lot to think about, but that's the great thing about Lost - it gives us so much to chew on.
I like that you brought back into the forefront the "magic box." I have never thought that they were finished with that after Locke's dad appeared. It very well might be the reason Ben can do what he wants.
Good point, Austruck. I love thinkers. The Oceanic 6 maintained the story that Jim died int he initial crash. The only 1 we can be sure of of the 2 is Claire, if in fact that Aaron is her Aaron, because she would have had to give birth on the island for him to be alive.
I'm still not convinced that is the Aaron we all know because of the age descrepancy.
Great stuff here! One small nitpick to pentathlete: Jin probably isn't one of the eight Jack mentions on the witness stand because the death date on his grave stone is the date of the crash. So that seems to be the lie they're telling about Jin as part of their larger coverup.
That would make that eighth person someone else.
Astro,
Great writing!! Wow I loved reading that. Michael's flashback would support much of your theories. Seeing Libby twice could of been smokie and the idea that the island will not lot him die yet.
Great stuff!
Sledge, I think you are right on the mark with many of your points. I am particularly interested in your ideas about Ben, Jacob, Smokey, and the Island but I have different thoughts.
First, I believe that Ben works for Jacob, just as he told Locke, not the other way around. When Ben took Locke to Jacob’s cabin, he acted terrified and I don’t think he was faking because Jacob became angry and threw him against the wall. I doubt Jacob would have done that if Ben were in charge.
Second, I think Smokey is a malevolent force separate from Jacob. The ash around Jacob’s cabin may actually be a defense against Smokey just as the sonic pylons were for Dharma and the Others. Furthermore, Locke recently asked Ben what the black smoke is and Ben replied that he did not know. Yes, Ben is a liar but I think he was telling the truth considering that Locke was threatening to kill him at the time and that he instead offered far more risky information—the fact that the people on the freighter were after him. I think that Jacob has commissioned Ben to defeat Smokey but as he has proven unable to do so, Jacob has turned to Locke and more recently Hurley for help.
Third, I agree that Smokey is behind some of the manifestations. In fact, in “The Beginning of the End,” we may have been given a subtle hint that this is the case. I have to credit my coworker’s brother who noticed it. In said episode, Hurley is visited by a black man, who identifies himself as Matthew Abadel [assumed spelling] and claims to be an attorney for Oceanic Airlines. He offers to upgrade Hurley's accommodations to a facility with an ocean view, where the paint isn't peeling off the walls. When Hurley becomes suspicious, he asks Mr. A for a business card. Mr. A claims to have left them at home and Hurley tells him their conversation is finished. Mr. A then abruptly asks Hurley, "Are they still alive?" Hurley freaks and Mr. A leaves in a hurry. As the door to the mental ward closes, a dark shadow moves across it. It’s hard to say but it could be Smokey. (Sledge, I can send you a screen shot or you can pull one yourself. The sequence takes place between 17:41 and 17:43.) Incidentally, El-Abadel was one of four villages in Algeria where the bloody Wilaya of Relizane massacres occurred on 30 December 1997. Perhaps the last name is a hint that Mr. Abadel—Smokey manifestation or not—intends to kill any survivors on the island.
Fourth, I don’t think Smokey is behind all of the manifestations. When Charlie comes from beyond the grave to tell Hurley that “they” need him, he seems like his old self and the music is more light-hearted rather than spooky like when Hurley was talking with Mr. A. Also, Charlie apparently knows there are survivors on the island that need help whereas Mr. A needs Hurley to confirm whether there are survivors. Assuming Mr. A is a Smokey manifestation, this also indicates that Smokey is not a servant of Ben since Ben obviously knows there are survivors but it raises the question as to why Smokey does not know given that he/it was there.
Fifth, I think Hurley’s imaginary friend Dave was introduced to implant doubt both in Hurley’s mind and in the minds of us viewers about what Hurley is seeing but that these other apparitions are real. We can conclude that they are real, as Sledge pointed out, because multiple people see them at the same time. In Hurley’s case, he was alerted to Mr. A’s presence by a nurse who informed him he had a visitor and to Charlie’s presence by a fellow patient who warned him that a guy was staring at him. Charlie even slapped Hurley in the face to prove that he was real and said, “I am dead but I’m also here.”
Sixth, and definitely an idea rather than a theory, I wonder if Walt sent Charlie to Hurley and Libby to his father Michael. We know that in the show, ghosts exist because Miles is able to commune with them. We also know that Walt is special but as of yet, this has not proven important. Perhaps, like Miles, part of what makes him special is spiritual in nature. In “Meet Kevin Johnson,” Libby appeared twice to Michael—once in his hospital room and once in the engine room on the freighter. Both apparitions occur after Michael had confessed to Walt that he murdered Anna Lucia and Libby. Michael is overcome with guilt, so who better to send as a messenger than one of his victims? This may just be wishful thinking on my part; I’m just tired of waiting 3.5 seasons to find out what role Walt’s “specialness” will play in the story.
Here are some more ideas to fling against the wall. These are not theories, just thoughts and guesses. I, like you, am not wedded to anything. I will go where the makers of this show take me.
Excellent presentation of some important ideas/themes. In my own head, I've been trekking that same path.
I have different thoughts on minor points. And I think that there are some additional notions that I've had that might flesh out these ideas.
Jin and Claire
Jin is not dead, nor will he die this season. Sun's motivation for returning will be to reunite with her husband and Ji Yeon's father. His heroic action was to remain on the island, making the choice so that Sun and the infant survive. How that happens will be compelling drama.
However, I do believe that Claire dies, likely heroically, and puts the responsibility for Aaron squarely on Kate. Again, this should be a moving story.
(Jin & Claire, along with the O6, account for the 8 that Jack mentions on the stand.)
Ben, Widmore, and ?
On the big issues of Ben, the Island, and Widmore, I tend to agree. Ben and Widmore want the island's powers for their own selfish reasons. Though we could be completely wrong about Widmore. We tend to dislike him because he dislikes Desmond.
Ben wants the island's powers to be inwardly focused. We don't know whether this is part of his sociopathic personality or if the rest of the world would truly be at risk.
Widmore wants the island's powers for selfish gain and "evil genius" dominion or, maybe, he wants to use them in an outwardly beneficent manner. Maybe he is trying to unleash the powers to heal the earth. Perhaps that "healing" is what puts humanity at risk. He might not know that. He just might want to be known as the man who saved the world and made it a paradise.
His motives could still be selfish, for fame and glory rather than riches and power, but his goals needn't be so nasty. Maybe, we'll discover something as trite as Widmore is afraid of death, old age, cancer, etc.
Surely, fighting Ben's resources would make for some violent and squeamish moments (that Ben could use, in turn, to manipulate others into viewing Widmore as the bad guy.)
Might there not be a third party in all of this, besides our intrepid 815 survivors, who are at work to thwart both Ben and Widmore? Those who understand what the island is and seek to protect it from those who would abuse it? Maybe they're the reason that Oceanic 815 crashed and that these specific people were able to survive. They're why Desmond is there, fulfilling his destiny. Aaron's importance is still unknown.
These embittered, imperfect, guilty survivors are meant to transform into the new protectors of this earthly Eden or Nirvana. Maybe it is the island itself that is doing all of these machinations to the Losties.
Smokey thoughts
Is Smokey a djinn? A deva? An angel? Or is it some sort of advanced nano-technology? Does Ben control Smokey and that is how he maintains control over the island and the original inhabitants (Other-Others)? Are the Other-Others those that have redeemed themselves and overcome their need to procreate and their fear of death?
Is Jacob just another O-O who once had control of Smokey? When will we see the story of how Ben wrested control of Smokey and thus the island away from Jacob? But Ben still needs Jacob to provide guidance for certain things such as who is innocent or safe enough to "take" from the downed airplane?
I don't think that any non-O-O folks in Ben's group knows that he controls Smokey. I also don't believe that he has complete control over it. Smokey did not kill Locke, when it appeared that it was supposed to do so. Smokey planted doubt in Juliet's mind by specifically stating that Ben had sent her (Smokey as Harper.)
Yes, I believe there are forces at work that want the island to be free, yet contained. A powerful force for good that cannot be unleashed on the earth without complete and utter havoc wrought upon humanity. But a power that needs to be free of the pathetic machinations of one hyper-intelligent little boy who grew to manhood physically, yet remains a lonely, self-absorbed, controlling little toad. (Yeah, yeah, he had a bad dad and was struck down in love (Anne, and to a lesser extent, Juliet.) We all have our histories.)
The rest of the way
I think the Widmore storyline plays out completely in Season 5, either melodramatically with a Desmond or Penny death, or triumphantly with a twist, such as Widmore's death, but at the unwilling hands of Des or Pen, thanks to Ben, of course. Or there could be a Desmond vs Sayyid struggle as one tries to save, the other to kill, Widmore, both reluctantly, both manipulated into this situation by Ben.
The final year will be the showdown between the Losties and one lonely and dangerous Benjamin Linus. Kate and Sawyer find real redemption and forfeit their lives to save Aaron. Juliet sacrifices herself to save Jack, who doesn't know that she's done that.
Jack and Locke attempt to save Jacob together and toss Ben into the fires of Mt Doom, so to speak. They fail at the former and Locke is forced to take down Smokey and they both cease to exist in the process. They succeed at the latter. Ben believes that because they have failed to save Jacob, he'll die comfortable in the knowledge that the rest of humanity will be following him in death shortly.
But Hurley arrives with Aaron and Ben recognizes that he is the new Jacob. Jack and Locke and the rest of the Losties have outmanuevered him at the last. He dies with that arrogant smile on his lips as he wishes Jack well in his infinite life on the island with Juliet.
Phewww.....I agree and don't agree with all, but that is the glory of this show.
The island is the constant imho...
As for good and bad...the show has set things up like this and that is a continued premise in many shows. Agreed in real life we don't do this, but this isn't real life.
"The magic box that Ben brought up, is just a metaphor of Jacob, and the overall spirit of the island. " This reminds me of JJ Abrams's talk at TEDD about the mystery box. I think the magic box is JJ's mystery box and perhaps he will never open his cardboard box, but we will evenutally see the what's in that box.
Thank you for sharing and keep the faith!
Good read, and I like your ideas but im still drawn between the two. Ben and Widdy. I like chosing Ben as the good guy because he is my favorite character on the show.