First off am i the only one who feels kind of let down that Aaron is considered one of the Oceanic 6? I mean technically he was on the plane, but he wasn't on the manifest.

I'm kind of torn with whether or not Jin is dead, I hope not, I like his character. But like norville said Jin told Sun he would do whatever it takes to get his family off the island, so who knows. Another part of me thinks that maybe Jin as well as some others are still on the island due to another one of Jacob's list perhaps? Locke originally was not on the list, but on the island he learned courage and leadership as well as a miraculous recovery. Maybe Jin who also changed his lifestyle ended up on a new list as well as Sawyer, etc.

Just a thought :)

The story that Jack gave was not true, because if they would've said that 40 some survived then questions would've been asked, when Jack said that 8 survived he wasn't telling the truth! it is probably just a story that the Oceanic 6 (5 actually, baby can't talk) made up to tell the whole world!

mishka316 said:
I have a pretty good feeling Jin is not truly dead... The only thing that makes me unsure, is that she calls for him in the hospital..

I agree that Jin is not truly dead and that is EXACTLY why Sun calls for him in the hospital...

Since Jin stays behind she could expect him to be back, don't ask me how, but it shows that she has hope, hence Jin not being truly dead.

I don't want to be disagreeable, here, but I've got a pretty good feeling that Jin is dead. Maybe I'm just falling for a red herring, but it occurred to me during Jin and Sun's reconciliation on the island (when he brought her dinner)... after she told him that they had to leave the island, and confirmed to him that the baby was his... he said (meaningfully) that he would do whatever it took to get her and the baby off the island. When he said that, I interpreted it as pretty much a sure sign that Jin was a goner, that we would probably give his life heroically to ensure that his wife and future daughter reached safety. Sure, maybe the writers just threw that in there for fools like myself who are on the lookout for foreshadowing, but to me everything in the episode just felt like he was going to die. I'm excited to see how this season plays out!!

I have a pretty good feeling Jin is not truly dead. That his grave was placed to keep the big "secret". Sun is upset DUH she just had a miracle baby (they couldnt get pregnant before) with her husband who she loves who is not with her. SHe misses him. The date says 9/22/04.. goes along with saying he died in the crash. I feel he wouldve stayed behind if he had to to let sun get to safety and have the baby.. The only thing that makes me unsure, is that she calls for him in the hospital..
oh and why is hurley so glad no one else is coming??

to many comments to read but does anyone know why the 1980 date is on there and what it cold mean

Thanks, JEPDnope!

So based on that, it doesn't really sound like it's a "couples" tombstone, just that it identifies Jin by several things, including his domicile, his birth/death dates, his wife's name, and it specifies his wife (ie: which Baek Sun hwa) by listing her birth date. That makes sense to me -- that's why there's no space left blank for them to put in Sun's death date later. That part was confusing me...

I agree that the listed death date means that Jin is either dead on the island, or one of the ones who got left behind, thus is essentially "dead" to Sun. I'm leaning towards that he's really dead, although the fact that she was calling for him while she was in labor is making me think a little....

I've seen a couple people ask for this below... and I haven't read every comment, so I'm not sure if anyone provided the translation or not...

I sent this link to a Korean friend of mine. He said:

"1974/11/27 birth 2004/9/22 death (right side)

Southern sea (I think it 's legal domicile about last name)
Kwon
Jin
Soo
's tomb (mid)

1980/3/20 birth
Wife Baek Sun hwa (left)"

Hope this helps!

Since Sawyer and Said are already off the boat and Sawyer is not one of the six, does that mean Sawyer voluntarily gives up his place for one of the six?

Please correct me on this, but didn't Jack say on the stand that "8 survived the crash, but only six lived". Don't you wonder who they are saying the other two are? And what they are saying caused those two to die?

AND of course, why the big lie?

Is it almost Thursday? Time for a new episode yet?

We've seen throughout the show that Hurley can be quite emotional. If Jin was really dead you know Hurley would have been crying his eyes out.

I think we will find out as the show moves forward that it won't be "why did the Oceanic 6 leave the island," it will be "why were those 6 chosen to leave."

Since this took place not long after they were rescued, i think Sun and Hurley believe there is now way to get back to the island. Therefore, they consider all those still on the island to be dead. I can't see the ending being all the survivors being dead! Especially Sawyer!!

Has anyone thought about why on earth Sun would ask Hurley (and Others that didn't come) to go with her to the tomb? I mean, it seems like some sort of celebration day - ya know like the baby's birthday - but that's not the case.

It has to be that somehow there are people left on the island. Who exactly and why remains to be seen. I'm under this assumption due to Hurley's flash forward when Jack visits him in the asylum and Hurley asks him if he was worried that Hurley would say something. What he was worried about was Hurley revealing the existence of the island.

Someone please translate the Korean! :-)

My first thought about the three dates was that it is a couples' tombstone, with the 1980 date being Sun's birthday (although I agree she looks older than that...) But the columns aren't right, are they? Do you read Korean left to right or right to left? Jin's birthdate is on the left, and "death" date on the right, so either way it doesn't seem correct to me... (I mean, as far as what the 1980 date could be...) Some tombstones have as a third date the person's date of marriage, but that doesn't work either, and that's usually only on a couple's stone...

I don't see how there can be a body in the ground there. If he came back somehow and then died as one of the Oceanic Six, the date is wrong. If it's a cover-up, then he's probably dead on the island somewhere -- they could hardly bring a dead body back with them as they were rescued, could they? Plus it doesn't fit with Jack's tale on the stand. If there is some weird time-thing / alternate reality thing going on, and Jin really DID die at the listed date (ie: in the crash) then the body wouldn't be there either. So I don't think there's a body there. Which doesn't mean anything, really -- people do memorial stones all the time with no body.

But I think he's dead (sadly... I wanted him to make it!) Sun looked genuinely grief-stricken, and the bringing the baby there? Yeah, I think he's toast. RIP, Jin!

It is not a memorial that was put up after the crash but before Sun's return, because it only has Sun's date of birth while it has Jin's date of birth and death. This is common when a surviving spouse buys a tombstone for their deceased husband/wife. It had to have been put up after Sun's return.

That still leaves the question of whether Jin is actually dead, or if he's still alive back on the island?

It was mentioned that he may die while they are escaping the island, but they return with his body. The problem with that theory is that there would be no motivation for Sun to lie about when he died if that was the case. Yes, the O-6 may have to lie about those left behind on the island to protect them somehow. But if Jin is dead and they have his body, then there is no reason to lie about when he died. And in fact any medical examiner would be able to tell right away that they were lying about the time of death. He'd be pretty well preserved for someone who's been dead over 100 days!

On the other hand if he's still alive, she'd have good reason to be broken up by their separation, but why would she go to his fake grave to mourn him? She would have bought the stone to keep up appearances, but why would Sun and Hurley feel the need to go to the cemetery to visit him if they knew he wasn't dead?

I'm certain from this that Jin will die before Sun gets off the island. I suppose one possible explanation for why Hurley mentioned "going to see Jin" is that Sun may decide to cremate Jin rather than bury him. That might be more common in their culture than burial. And it would at least explain how she could have brought him home to be interred in that cemetery without raising questions about when he actually died.

I'll also mention that I'm fairly convinced that there were 2 groups of people left behind on the island. 1. The people like Locke who wanted to stay, and 2. The people like Jin, Claire, Rose, Bernard, etc. who probably didn't want to stay, but were not able to leave for whatever reason.

If we want to discuss the possibility of Jin still being alive on the island, I think that we have to assume that whatever happens during the rescue, the O6 are told, or led to believe or whatever, that there is no way they can ever find the island again. If that is the case, regardless of the circumstances in which Jin is left behind, then he would basically be dead to them. I mean, if they think that there is no way they can ever ever see them again, that is. Just a thought.

K, I actually only now read the tombstone - it's definitely not marking the site of burial of an actual body, IMO. It's a memorial marker for the assumed deaths of Sun and Jin. Sun - 3/20/80, Jin - 11/27/47, their birthdays. 9/22/04, date of the plane crash. Afterall, the finding of the wreckage was staged and everyone thought they were dead. I guess maybe one of the "fake" bodies could be buried there.

Actually, I think the casual, non-chalante (sp?) way in which Hurley said, "Let's go see him", makes me think that Jin is not dead. Seems he would be a little more sensitive and less giddy about going to grieve over Jin.

Can anyone translate the Korean?

Do we know that it is Suns B-day?

Even if it is. Before couples die, they have a tombstone. I have seen a lot of grave stones that have the birthday of the wife and the birthday and death day of the husband. All it means is that Jin is dead and Sun isn't. It is not a memorial.

her age that is :)

Well, in some of Sun's earlier flashback's she was in college. Not saying that you have to be young to go to college, but it does add up.

as far as time lines go. This would be the first of the flash forwards, followed by Kates (or vice versa, it doesnt really matter). In Jack then says how he is going to grow a beard, so Sayid and Hurly come next, but all around the same time I would think. Jacks, which was the season ender last year, would be the last of them all

Sun born in 1980? she's 24??????

Good point BobBX... I didn't notice that both birthdays were on there. If that memorial was put up prior to the O6 coming home, then the only indication that we have that Jin is dead is the emotions displayed by Sun. But those could also just be the emotions of a woman who misses her stranded, not necessarily dead, husband.

Imnotapeck said:
March 20, 1980 is when Sun was born, November 27th, 1974 is Jin's birthday, and September 22, 2004 is the plane crash. It's just a memorial marker.

For everyone that thinks that they (Sun and Hurley) wouldn't go to that memorial/tombstone and honestly grieve, go down to the Vietnam Veteran's Memorial wall in Washington D.C. I have seen plenty of people crying there, and I can't think of one person buried there.

As you can see, the memorial was put there (probably by Sun's father) as a memorial to her and Jin because everyone thought they died in the crash. Now that Sun is back, since there is already a memorial, she just goes there to honor his memory.

Why are there 3 dates on the tombstone? Shouldn't there only be two?

Jin is dead.

The date on the tombstone corresponds to the "story" that they have all had to make up to cover what really happened on the island.

Hurley specifically says "then i guess we should go see him" or something like that. They would not go to the grave, that seriously, if he wasn't buried there.

I would have to guess this flash-forward happens before Hurley's, since they probably wouldn't let him leave the institution to travel to Korea if he had already gone crazy. Plus, since Sun was already pregnant on the island, this flah-forward couldn't be too far in the "future" unless she had an unprecedented 36-month pregnancy. I've heard August of 2005 mentioned as a probable date for Sun's flash-forward, and that sounds about right.

And since its most likely that Jack's flash-forward occured after Hurley's, we can safely say that this happens well before Jack goes nutty for the island, too.

For some reason, I hadn't even entertained the idea that Jin could still be alive until I read this thread. Sun seemed to be greiving Jin's death... but man I sure would like it if he was still alive on the island with the rest that stayed behind. "I miss you" could be interpretted either way.

Well, if the date on the tombstone corresponds to the initial planecrash it would indicate to me that Sun's father or other relatives would have erected it when the story of the plane had gone missing and shorly thereafter "found" in a trench.
Would not Sun's name been on it as well? If Sun has it put up after she arrived home in Korea would she not have put his true death date? I think ( and hope) that Jin is on the island and Sun uses the Cemetery to be as close to him as she can get.
Any idea as to when Hurley goes crazy? before or after this scene? I can't figure out Jack's sequence either? Any of you bright folk figuered it out? When does Jack strive to get back? When does Hurley say he wants to go back? I am confused.

I think that if Jin was still alive, she would not bring her daughter to his grave. I feel as though she'd have a party at home if his body wasn't really in that ground. Just my opinion.

If Jin is alive on the Island, it implies that there is some compelling reason why the six did not mention other survivors or insist that others be rescued. Not just "the others wanted to stay, so pretend they are dead."

Jin WANTED to leave. If there was any way that the O-6 COULD go back and rescue him (and others), they would have. I believe that Sun would have insisted on it. Therefore, either Jin is dead, or something earthshattering happens (or is revealed) that results in Sun not being able to go back to the island for her husband.

Jin faking his death would be the only was he could get away from working for Suns father

I agree with Creampop. I think Jin may still be alive and stuck on the island. Nobody said he was dead. Sun just said that she missed him.

I thought Jack stated that 8 people survived the crash? Just pickin nits...

Typo:
"9/22/2004 on it, the ate of the crash"
Just thought I'd point it out.

It could be possible that Jin is the one who is "going to die" as per next weeks preview or it could somehow happen that the reason there is only the Oceanic 6 is because only 6 are able/allowed to leave and everyone else must remain on the island...or they all die. The staying on the island one is better....

its really got me thinkin thats for sure, but as a woman knowin how your emotions run after having a child I can honestly say I am torn, Jin could still be on the Island and her tears still be real cus he isn't there with her or thier daughter. all part of the overall plan who knows LOL

Staggerlee - Somewhere in Jack's dialogue he said 7 survived the crash, 6 were rescued... so maybe the "Story" is he survived injured but died & they brought his body back.

koolkat if he died at the rescue his "dead on" date would not be sept 04, as it is Dec. 04 now on the island

We learned that there were 7 survivors and 6 people who returned.

I think Jin was #7. Somehow he died during the "rescue" and they brought back the body.

Thst would make the Oceanic 6 (7): Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, Sun ,(Jin who survives the crash but dies either in rescue or when they are "found"), and ????

I don't count Aaron as he wasn't a passenger technically, but they might count him - we'll find out.

Maybe. Having him on the island makes him seem dead. No contact at all.Probably never to see him again. It is a good argument.

I think he may be dead or he may be still on the island but could not make it off the island for some reason.