my first thought was that Ben was conning him. (so that he wouldn't try to run away - seeing as there was no use if he was on a different island), and seeing as he had already lied about that pulse-heart thing, maybe he's trying to break sawyer? hmm but you all have pretty good theories!
oh and I'm new here btw! lol i've been lurking for a day now. ^^

Station C3 is most likely Hydra as its the only one on the blast door map illustrated as though on an island.

Check here:
http://www.lost4815162342.com/blastmap.htm

on the following site, scroll down to the first paragraph and click the highlighted words "Blast Door Map"
http://andfound.com/theories/dharma-hanso-and-all-part-one/

i think this map (from Lostpedia) shows the layout of the islands pretty nicely..
[img]http://www.lostpedia.com/images/d/d0/Theisland.png[/img]

I think when Sayid, Sun and Jin sailed around the island they would have seen the other island(s) - if it weren't for the electromagnetic field still operative at the time. Maybe if they make another round trip, if they dare, they'll see the other island(s).

But then again, another island (or more) were seen in the background of the Pala Dock in the Season 2 finale, so that would kinda spoil the above idea... but maybe not just the island the survivors are living on was cloaked by the electromagnetic field.

Do we know what the red dot is on Ben's right hand, as seen in the pic at top of page?

Does anyone else think that Danielle might be an other, sent to possibly to watch the survivers, that maybeis an out cast and is tring to get evenwith the others, just a thought

And there is a white thing under the water at the bottom of the cliff, where Ben takes Sawyer. Might be the Submarine.
Other thing, in Danielle's maps we see a boat in the shore and 2 islands. One with "38º" and other with "Coral Reefs" marked. The view Sawyer had appear to be the one from the "Coral Reef". Danielle might thought that the "38º" is the Island where the Pala Ferry was going from the Docks, But they might have to pass there, due to currents in the "Blue Lake", before the real place of Hydra, the "Coral Reef", which could be the reason they took so long to deliver Colleen in the station.

This goes back to 3:1. How could the others get to the crash site so fast? Especially now that we are told they are on another island. There must be some type of underground/water tunnels.

I agree with MEANNOD. From 3:1, The Other's village has be located in the North East corner of the island, if the flight paths are correct. And I think they are because the plane was flying North East, but then turned back around towards the South West.

I still think they are all on one island. If you follow the shore line in the picture below, the sight of the crash and the Other's village are on the same island. I think Ben is conning Sawyer, as he said to Sawyer that he was a good con man, but "we are better". Perhaps, Sawyer has met his match!
Also, maybe the part of the island that Ben took Sawyer to see the 'other' island had the shoreline obscured so it would only appear to be unconnected.
In past episodes, the 'others' have said, this is our island, we only LET you stay here, leading you to think that it is one big island.
Since the island is so big, the 'others' do navigate around it by some type of boating means.
All in all, I wish they would just stick to one story line because it all is becoming too confusion for me!! LOL

Drive Shaft according to your map the others living quarters and crater would have to be located in the north (on another island?) it looks as if it could be connected. If you watch the beginning of episode 3:1 the plane came from behind them passed over and the tail section landed closer to them
[img]http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/2166/islandbx0.png[/img]

When they found Desmond on the sailboat, Desmond was inside the bottom of the boat. Maybe Desmond didn't see the island because he was inside and wasn't on the deck of the sailboat.

What about sayid, Jin and Sun wouldn't they have noticed they had sailed to a different island?

The Others live in the crater depicted on Rousseau's map on the original island. This isn't to say though that some might not be living outside of the village on this island or taking shifts on this island as we know Carl had already been there for a while if he thought Sawyer's camp was on the "2 times Alcatraz" island.

So in the first episode, when the others saw the planes crash which island were they on?

Do they live on the original island?

Are they just expirimenting on this other island, as we haven't seen their village yet?

This was what I asked myself over and over as I watched the episode.

These people are crazy!

It is possible that when Kelvin mentions the hostiles, he's just trying to keep Desmond in the hatch. I mean, he was planning on stelaing the boat and ditching Desmond there, so can we really trust that the Hostiles were real?? Now assuming that the Others are the hostiles, We actually don't know if the Others went from their island to the mysterious island of mystery before the crash. They may have had no reason, so they probably never saw Des's boat because they weren't there. Just to throw that out there.

[quote="BobBx542"]Point Place-Desmond was only at sea for 18 days after leaving the hatch so the others may have missed it....

Yes, but the boat was moored and being repaired by Inman/Kelvin for quite a long time before that. If Kelvin was a Dharma person and the people we've been led to believe are "the others" are (or were) Dharma people then they either weren't paying attention to what Kelvin was doing or aren't nearly as omniscient as we've been lead to believe.

nice painting... don't y'all think?

ok.. so if the polar bears were originally kept in the cages sawyer and kate are now in.... HOW THE HELL? did they manage to get over to the other island? I know polar bears can swim, but it seems unlikely they would swim that far in war waters, in a strange environment...

Maybe, they do not mean subMARINE, but rather SUBway, and the "sub" runs underground between the two islands?

the reason desmond sailed around the island in a circle was because the giant magnet screwed up his compass and gps equipment. for the record, desmonds partner kelvin drew the map (so did radsinski)

NOW if u heard what ben said, the small island is about 2 times the size of alcatraz. This means the small island is about a square mile in area. Thats not to big. Also if u look at the map of the island (link is below), there IS a small island off near the zoological center so there you go thats where jack kate and sawyer are.

NOTE ABOUT THIS MAP:
where it says "the pearl?" is NOT where the pearl is. that relating to the blast map IGNORE IT. The island we're looking at is in the south east (bottom right) corner where it says "zoological station"

http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/5001/islandhatches39ir.jpg

Have fun

Does anybody remember back in season 1 there was a discussion on other boards about seeing something in the water in one of the screen caps? I remember people stating that it looked like a periscope. Hmmmmmm.

when we saw the map of all the "hatches" did it show the one the Others are in right now? If so how did Desmond, I thought he drew the sketch, how did he know about all the hatches and did not know about another island.

Point Place-Desmond was only at sea for 18 days after leaving the hatch so the others may have missed it, and prior to that, the regular survivors hadn't searched the enitire island, so unless they were already on the side of the island where the little one could be seen, they wouldn't have seen it. The only person that really knew about the other islands was rousseau, and she drew them on her map, but didn't label them (I think she didn't).

Remember when Carl asked Sawyer, "Which way is your camp?" right before he tried to escape? That seems to imply that either Carl didn't know which island he was on, or which island the Flight 815 survivors are on. Perhaps when one of The Others acts out, they are bagged and dragged to this "Alcatraz", as Benry called it. Whether The Others' village is on the little island or not, clearly at least SOME of The Others know about the little island. Maybe Alex isn't one of the ones who's supposed to be in on the secret, hence her sneaking around and questioning Kate.
Hmmmm....

Ok so No Losties saw this Island......lame.....But what is also lame is that the Others didn't see Desmonds boat for hmmm a year and while he was being a drunken sailor. Arrrrrr maity! Oh and somehow the Others detected some goofy boat Michael and Jin made.

Point Made........loop holes are beginning to stack like Emipire State building my friends.

Not really sure why the losties have yet to see this new island, but I have a theory about the new island, the village, and the Hydra station. I think that the others' village is on the losties' island. We know that part of the Hydra station is under water. What if the Hydra station is underneath the body of water between the losties' island and the new island. We don't know really how big the station is, and it would explain how they are getting between the 2 islands so easily. They just take their little underground subway. It would also make sense since we've seen a Dharma shark out in open water. They are keeping the captives on the new island and making them believe that there's no easy way off.

This Hydra Island must somehow be cloaked from view from the main island; or someone would clearly see it. This goes with a theory I have regarding a bubble around the island(s) that hide it from the outside world.

As for the "sub", I remember in the season 1 episode "Homecoming", Ethan somehow gets onto the beach, past the eager guard of Sayid and Locke, and kills Scott (or was it Steve? :D), before disappearing again - and the first place Locke looks is into the sea. The sub again, perhaps?

I'm with you Beanblog. The polar bears may have been starving if they escaped and the station was abandoned which would give them a very good reason to swim to another island. Who's to say one of the other small islands aren't going to pop into the story too.

I think it's fairly obvious that the small island they are on now is the "Hydra Island" and is just a small complex, while the main residence is on the main island, as show in the S3 opener. An isolated island would make a good spot for a zoological research station, as any escaped animals would be less likely to get out and breed in the native population. Though, polar bears are good swimmers!

I'm a sailor. It would be impossible to miss the second island by sailing around the first. But whose to say the larger island is "THE" island.

At sea, a land mass as large as either of those island could easily be missed as little as 10 land miles away. If "THE" island were 10 miles away, it wouldn't be impossible timewise or logistically to have taken Jack, Kate, and Sawyer from their island to this pair of islands.

I just wanted to point out that the loss of the boat is critical. It had a GPS (I saw the GPS antenna plain as day in the background of a closeup shot of Jin while he was on the boat) which not only would have told them were they were, but how to get home.... (Well barring any space/time continuum vortex....)

The second island could be an illusion...but that would just be silly. (About as silly as believing that someone could sail around the Lost island and never spot the Other island)

Did anyone else notice the light rig that Ben, Sawyer and the guards walked past right as they were looking off the bluff?

Smaller island have been seen in the background on the show, specifically during the last scene of season 2 on the Pala dock

It seems that perhaps the smaller island is the debriefing station mentioned in one of the videos. This would also further explain why the Others wouldn't want them to go to the other side of the island.

Perseus-The survivors haven't mapped every single inch of the island they are on, in fact, the one person who has (Rousseau), did draw smaller islands on her map. This might explain why she has never found the others on the main island.

OK, can someone explain to me why the people on the big island have not seen the smaller island?

HAS ANYONE CONSIDERED THAT " THE SUB" BEN MENTIONED MAY HAVE BEEN SENT FROM PENELOPE WIDMORE. WE KNOW FROM THE FINALE OF SEASON 2 THAT SHE IS LOOKING FOR THE ISLAND, SO IT'S NOT BEYOND THE REALMS OF POSSIBILY THAT SHE BOUGHT A SUB AFTER THE PORTUGEUSE SPEAKING MEN RECORDED THE MAGNETIC ABNORMALY AND HEADED OUT TOWARDS IT? JUST A THOUGHT

Fenry definately told juliete " the sub is back, and we have a situation." I turned on the closed captioner on my tv, and that is what came up. That would explain how the boarding team appeared from no where at the dock, without Jin and Saayid detecting them until it was too late. Where do they berth the sub ? moreoverly since they have a sub, then why do they need the sail boat? Maybe to keep the survivors isolated on their island?

First, on the matter of how Goodwin and Ethan ran to the crash sites from the village: The facility where Jack, Kate, and Sawyer are being held is on the smaller island - but that doesn't mean the village is on the small island.

Second, and I could definitely be wrong about this, but when Ben interrupted Juliet and Jack, did he say "The sub is back"? If he did, that would explain how Team Colleen got over to the boat and what have you. I could be wrong that, I played it back a couple times, and I still couldn't be sure he said "sub"

What about the village? In 3x01, Ethan and the other guy took off running from the village to assimilate in with the survivors. How could they have time to sail over and where would they park the boats so that they wouldn't be found? Nothing was said about having a buddy drop them off.

And the Pala Dock was on the main island. Did Coleen's party (send to attack Sun, Jin, and Sayid) sail over on their own boat? Where was it and what happened to it when they took the sailboat to go back to the camp?

If there really ARE two islands, I think they have to be connected by at least an undersea tunnel, no?

Well, it seems pretty illogical that Benjamin could be conning him about there being two islands. I mean, Sawyer is looking right at it.